[Grief] Re: Grief Digest, Vol 61, Issue 15

david brookes harmaline23 at hotmail.com
Sat Dec 29 20:57:20 PST 2007


That's the exact same reply I got from Chris a few days ago when I sent an email voicing my concerns about TGV, Peter got in touch a day later explaining his role in the video transfer. He explains that TG do not have any of the masters for the early TG footage, this is due to loss, theft and the Police raid on Beck Road during the 80's when Gen was in PTV.


Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 20:26:11 +0000From: freenoiseuk at blueyonder.co.ukTo: grief at hollyfeld.orgSubject: [Grief] Re: Grief Digest, Vol 61, Issue 15

Hi,
I am sorry to hear of your concerns regarding the quality of the earlier material on TGV.
I didn't really have any involvement with the video transfer and grading of those earlyTGV performances you have issues with. My role on those particular titles was purelywith remastering and reconforming their audio for TGV. My primary task for TGV was
editing, mixing, re/mastering and syncing all the various audio formats for each TG
performance (stereo & Dolby 5.1 etc).
So I have forwarded your email to Peter (Christopherson) and Paul Taylor at Mute whoshould be able to answer your specific concerns more directly.RegardsChris Carter



On 28 Dec 2007, at 21:31, FNUK wrote:

Quote <"I'd really like to hear from someone who worked on TGV, why the tapes used were of such bad quality">Er, how about Chris Carter chris at carter.co.uk - maybe his regular updates about how much pressure he's always under has something to do with it.....??And this must be the Paul Taylor he refers to (Mute production) http://www.discogs.com/artist/Paul+A.+TaylorYep the recent gigs are awesome of course and they should be for the price... but the old ones....the very old VHS bootlegs that everyone's seen by now are much better than these. Some really amateur work... Yeah I'm rather pissed off too. £85. Hmmm.... We've just released a DVD (Freenoise) with a disclaimer on the back about lack of polish (shakey cam etc.) but I wouldn't have the nerve to put out something that was WORSE than what was already out there, bootleg or not!!Fuck! The £85.20 receipt needs framing..!?!FJCc: chris at chriscarter.co.ukgrief-request@hollyfeld.org wrote: 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: TGV reactions (andy at flesheatingants.com)


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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 10:36:17 -0600
From: andy at flesheatingants.com
Subject: Re: [Grief] TGV reactions
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <20071228103617.kv798b1s0wwksgc0 at 207.210.208.140>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=UTF-8;	DelSp="Yes";	format="flowed"

Ok, I've had a look at Astoria and some of the older shows and I'll  
start by saying Astoria looks and sounds fantastic.  The 5.1 mix is  
superb, but it's not surprising since Mute are considered to be at the  
cutting edge of producing 5.1 music releases.  The show is well shot,  
from lots of different interesting angles, and I can't wait to check  
out the other recent shows.  The older shows really are a different  
story though...

I've had a look through at the vintage shows and I'm actually quite  
shocked how bad they look.  Now, I am well aware about the bad  
lighting, and single VHS camera etc. etc. - this isn't the issue, the  
main issue is they did not track down remotely decent copies of the  
tapes.  Considering how much effort went into TG24, with the searching  
out of the best versions available, these releases just baffle me.   
I've stuck some screen shots up from Heathen Earth and Oundle School  
here:

http://www.brainwashed.com/tg/tgvcaptures.php

Now, even if the masters are unusable due to age, there have to be  
good 1st and 2nd gen dubs still kicking about, even a copy of the  
actual VHS releases has to be devoid of screens like this:
http://media.brainwashed.com/tg/images/video/tgvoundleschool12.jpg

There's nasty white lines throughout the films, and at points it does  
get that bad.

I'm sure on the old video it would have been possible to make out the  
porn on the TV?
http://media.brainwashed.com/tg/images/video/tgvheathenearth4.jpg

I had a look at the San Fran show as well, primarily at the end of the  
concert - of which Discipline has been taken from this show and put on  
compilation tapes and appears on a Cramps DVD as an extra.  I'm sure  
these versions I've seen previously are a lot cleaner that this copy  
of the show.

The shows sound fine, because the sound is ripped form the CD  
releases, but really the picture is on par with the shit quality  
bootlegs that were being sold on ebay - that made us all think "Wow,  
this looks shit - I can't wait for an official release."

I'd really like to hear from someone who worked on TGV, why the tapes  
used were of such bad quality.

-Andy

Quoting hex <hex at blueyonder.co.uk>:

  

TG have never really been about quality control. Ever since the reunion
they have only been trying to capitalize on the name. Just look at what
they charge for shows or for any of their merchandise on their website
      ?
Almost ALL stuf they've released recently has been very reasonably priced I
would say!!! With the exception of pretty clearly marked "collectors" items
(totem sets, Desertshore etc) - if we're talking about TGV here - that's
pretty reasonable too! -  a tenner a disc, nice booklet etc etc - AND VERY
CLEARLY stated that these should not be compared to conventional commercial
products/DVDs

TG and Quality Control? I think you're confused!!! I'm pretty sure TG are
still involved in all aspects of their releases all of which are high
quality - however the CONTENT may not be ;-) - it's never been about shiny,
commercial product - so of course it's not going to sound/look like that! As
far as I look at it TG24, Desertshore,TGV etc etc are audio/video documents
probably of little or no intrest to even the average TG fan but I've never
come across any other band brave enough (or stupid enough?) to release 24hrs
of stuf in one go nevermind it's all live from poor/ageing masters etc!! If
they were trying to capitalise on the name there are far less risky releases
they could have done which I'm sure would yield far more dosh as would a nice
World Tour.

Basically the point is these are pretty non-commercial products with very
small runs (aka "Limited Editions" !!!!) so cost more to produce per unit so
obviously retail for more too - and in TG's case I don't see it as an
outrageous mark up. The live shows seem pretty reasonably priced too -so much
so I have absolutely no idea how much they were (Desertshore was a bit more -
but was hardly your conventional show either) and Astoria was FREE for
fucksake!!!

....I believe the Spice Girls have a new album out and are doing a reunion
tour - maybe their prices/products/tickets are the sort of better value you
seek ;-)

DIL23
:)
.....and of course Happy Hexmas and a Great New yEra to ALL!




On Monday 24 December 2007 22:57:09 Vincent Berkey wrote:
    
TG have never really been about quality control. Ever since the reunion
they have only been trying to capitalize on the name. Just look at what
they charge for shows or for any of their merchandise on their website.
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End of Grief Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14
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  grief-request at hollyfeld.org wrote: 
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Grief Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14 (FNUK)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 21:31:55 +0000
From: FNUK <freenoiseuk at blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: [Grief] Re: Grief Digest, Vol 61, Issue 14
To: grief at hollyfeld.org, chris at chriscarter.co.uk
Message-ID: <47756B4B.7000502 at blueyonder.co.uk>
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End of Grief Digest, Vol 61, Issue 15
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