[Grief] RE: Grief Digest, Vol 31, Issue 4

Daniel Doran livewireconfusion at hotmail.com
Mon Jun 6 16:07:30 EDT 2005


Louisa,

You are completely right. Don't listen to these sub-humans.

From: grief-request at hollyfeld.org
Reply-To: grief at hollyfeld.org
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Subject: Grief Digest, Vol 31, Issue 4
Date: Mon,  6 Jun 2005 05:04:52 -0400 (EDT)

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Today's Topics:

    1. Re: Camber Sands (Louisa Bannon)
    2. Re: Camber Sands (heiferboy at robinsonworld.freeserve.co.uk)
    3. Re: Camber Sands (C. A. Polk)
    4. Re: Grief Digest, Vol 31, Issue 3 (Ben Waddington)
    5. Re: Camber Sands (Louisa Bannon)
    6. Re: Camber Sands (Mark)
    7. Antw: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands (RWKolk at cs.com)
    8. Re: Camber Sands (Louisa Bannon)
    9. RE: Camber Sands (random99)
   10. RE: Camber Sands (Louisa Bannon)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 18:32:48 +0000
From: "Louisa Bannon" <triskela at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <BAY17-F29484B0822D5302D397F8AD0F80 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

 >It still seems to be available from Mute
 >http://www.mute.com/releases/viewRelease.jsp;jsessionid=467E60922E515FCF4F68A4ABA4AFFD8B?showPrices=true&id=442578

Thanks so much, Dave!

On my honor, I had checked the site - including the shopping area - and at
some point yesterday evening some items were not showing that were later
visible when I followed your link. Maybe they were working on the catalogue
database or something. Anyway, the items I was searching for were not there
and I was getting super pissed off, there was only one page of items instead
of the two I saw several hours later. Everything was apparently back to
normal later on when I followed your link. And yes, the item I seek was
there too. Even the limited edition plate and everything. Interesting point
though, even several hours onward the site seemed to keep losing stuff out
of my shopping cart, sort of like it was losing session or something like
that. Just weird stuff...so I have yet to complete my order. Hopefully, it
will all get sorted and I can place my order soon.

Damn you, Mute UK!!!

Some weeks back I had contacted Mute's USA site to no avail, not even a
reply. So when I tried the UK site yesterday and found it even more useless
than usual I was ready to pull out my hair. Mute needs to do at least
several more things to increase the usability of the site. Having a price
toggle button instead of just the actual price in the main catalogue section
seems idiotic at best. Is hiding the price somehow perceived as more
"polite"?

Anyway, thanks again. I am all better now...

=)

- Louisa



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 20:03:59 +0000
From: "heiferboy at robinsonworld.freeserve.co.uk"
	<heiferboy at robinsonworld.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: [Grief] Re: Camber Sands
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <yam10017.2954.36671000 at smtp.freeserve.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain

What happens is that if you put Throbbing Gristle in the group search bit
you don't get as many choices as if you search for Throbbing Gristle.

Daft init?


Hello Louisa

On 05/06/2005, you wrote:

 >> It still seems to be available from Mute
 >>
http://www.mute.com/releases/viewRelease.jsp;jsessionid=467E60922E515FCF4F68A4ABA4AFFD8B?showPrices=true&id=442578
 >
 > Thanks so much, Dave!
 >
 > On my honor, I had checked the site - including the shopping area - and 
at
 > some point yesterday evening some items were not showing that were later
 > visible when I followed your link. Maybe they were working on the
 > catalogue database or something. Anyway, the items I was searching for
 > were not there and I was getting super pissed off, there was only one 
page
 > of items instead of the two I saw several hours later. Everything was
 > apparently back to normal later on when I followed your link. And yes, 
the
 > item I seek was there too. Even the limited edition plate and everything.
 > Interesting point though, even several hours onward the site seemed to
 > keep losing stuff out of my shopping cart, sort of like it was losing
 > session or something like that. Just weird stuff...so I have yet to
 > complete my order. Hopefully, it will all get sorted and I can place my
 > order soon.
 >
 > Damn you, Mute UK!!!
 >
 > Some weeks back I had contacted Mute's USA site to no avail, not even a
 > reply. So when I tried the UK site yesterday and found it even more
 > useless than usual I was ready to pull out my hair. Mute needs to do at
 > least several more things to increase the usability of the site. Having a
 > price toggle button instead of just the actual price in the main 
catalogue
 > section seems idiotic at best. Is hiding the price somehow perceived as
 > more "polite"?
 >
 > Anyway, thanks again. I am all better now...
 >
 > =)
 >
 > - Louisa
 >
 >
 > _______________________________________________
 > Grief mailing list
 > Grief at hollyfeld.org
 > http://www.hollyfeld.org/mailman/listinfo/grief
 >
Regards
--
**I wrote this on my Amiga, yes, they're still going**

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:18:37 +0000
From: "C. A. Polk" <capolk at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <BAY102-F3149F8C6B4C3BE90825156D5F80 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

 >From: "Louisa Bannon" <triskela at hotmail.com>

 >Damn you, Mute UK!!!

Yeah...keeping the catalog available for over 20 years now, putting out the
live boxsets...what a bunch of assholes!!!



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 20:51:58 +0100 (BST)
From: Ben Waddington <falsedog at yahoo.com>
Subject: [Grief] Re: Grief Digest, Vol 31, Issue 3
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <20050605195158.97567.qmail at web52709.mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  > Lousia,
 >
 > It still seems to be available from Mute
 >
 > Doesn't say it's sold out. You should just be able
 > to
 > buy it on line from them
 >
 >

Or ring and ask?



___________________________________________________________
How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:52:34 +0000
From: "Louisa Bannon" <triskela at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <BAY17-F411A020333C9422E7E5D8AD0F80 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

 >From: "C. A. Polk" <capolk at hotmail.com>
 >Yeah...keeping the catalog available for over 20 years now, putting out 
the
 >live boxsets...what a bunch of assholes!!!

Yes, it must be listed amongst their many sins.

Hey, nothing excuses having a crappy site that people can't easily navigate
or with which they cannot place a simple order. I am a fairly savvy web user
and if I can't use the Mute catalogue site I think others are being driven
away in droves. The whole point is to find stuff and get off the site in
short order, I am not trying to solve their navigation or database query
puzzles.

Let's not confuse issues. I would feel exactly the same way if it were a
site run by TG themselves. Professionalism means so much. I am willing to
spend my dollars, I just don't want to crawl through a gauntlet to do it.

- Louisa



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 22:01:42 +0100
From: "Mark" <markstevens at waitrose.com>
Subject: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: <grief at hollyfeld.org>
Message-ID: <001301c56a11$c70a3390$20ecbd50 at freshstart>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Why have you waited so long to buy it then?

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Louisa Bannon
   To: grief at hollyfeld.org
   Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 8:52 PM
   Subject: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands


   >From: "C. A. Polk" <capolk at hotmail.com>
   >Yeah...keeping the catalog available for over 20 years now, putting out 
the
   >live boxsets...what a bunch of assholes!!!

   Yes, it must be listed amongst their many sins.

   Hey, nothing excuses having a crappy site that people can't easily 
navigate
   or with which they cannot place a simple order. I am a fairly savvy web 
user
   and if I can't use the Mute catalogue site I think others are being 
driven
   away in droves. The whole point is to find stuff and get off the site in
   short order, I am not trying to solve their navigation or database query
   puzzles.

   Let's not confuse issues. I would feel exactly the same way if it were a
   site run by TG themselves. Professionalism means so much. I am willing to
   spend my dollars, I just don't want to crawl through a gauntlet to do it.

   - Louisa


   _______________________________________________
   Grief mailing list
   Grief at hollyfeld.org
   http://www.hollyfeld.org/mailman/listinfo/grief

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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 5 Jun 2005 21:28:56 EDT
From: RWKolk at cs.com
Subject: Antw: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <111.4b9c65be.2fd500d8 at cs.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

I bought it as soon as I heard there was a liverecording. So that must have
been somewhere early in December.

So when will the Astoria recording ever come out?

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 03:32:14 +0000
From: "Louisa Bannon" <triskela at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <BAY17-F28661E66B45078F80751FFD0FB0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

 >Why have you waited so long to buy it then?

I was hoping Mute in the US would carry it.

- Louisa



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 06:27:42 +0100
From: "random99" <random99 at ntlworld.com>
Subject: RE: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: <grief at hollyfeld.org>
Message-ID:
	<20050606052742.EJHE29707.aamta11-winn.ispmail.ntl.com at XOMPUTER>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"



 >-----Original Message-----
 >From: grief-bounces at hollyfeld.org [mailto:grief-bounces at hollyfeld.org] On
Behalf
 >Of Louisa Bannon
 >Sent: 05 June 2005 20:53
 >To: grief at hollyfeld.org
 >Subject: Re: [Grief] Camber Sands
 >
 >>From: "C. A. Polk" <capolk at hotmail.com>
 >>Yeah...keeping the catalog available for over 20 years now, putting out
the
 >>live boxsets...what a bunch of assholes!!!
 >
 >Yes, it must be listed amongst their many sins.
 >
 >Hey, nothing excuses having a crappy site that people can't easily 
navigate
 >or with which they cannot place a simple order. I am a fairly savvy web
user
 >and if I can't use the Mute catalogue site I think others are being driven
 >away in droves. The whole point is to find stuff and get off the site in
 >short order, I am not trying to solve their navigation or database query
 >puzzles.

Did you try:

1) going to mute.com
2) clicking on the shop link
3) selecting Throbbing Gristle from the list
4) scroll down the page until you get to the Camber Sands CD (hint it's the
third from the bottom)
5) enter the number you require
6) add to basket
7) proceed to checkout

It's the first time I've used the mute online shop and it took me less time
than to write this email...maybe your not so "web savvy" as you think ;)

Here's a direct link to the mute shop TG page with camber sands:

http://tinyurl.com/8jn6w

Paul


 >Let's not confuse issues. I would feel exactly the same way if it were a
 >site run by TG themselves. Professionalism means so much. I am willing to
 >spend my dollars, I just don't want to crawl through a gauntlet to do it.
 >
 >- Louisa
 >
Crawl through a gauntlet? I like that.


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 09:24:07 +0000
From: "Louisa Bannon" <triskela at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Grief] Camber Sands
To: grief at hollyfeld.org
Message-ID: <BAY17-F119BAE636F88C61B5FFDDBD0FB0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

 >From: "random99" <random99 at ntlworld.com>
 >1) going to mute.com
 >2) clicking on the shop link
 >3) selecting Throbbing Gristle from the list
 >4) scroll down the page until you get to the Camber Sands CD (hint it's 
the
 >third from the bottom)
 >5) enter the number you require
 >6) add to basket
 >7) proceed to checkout

The problem was resolved after the first reply I recieved, thanks though.

My first problem with Mute is how the U.S. version of their site has
substantially less material available on it than does the U.K. site. I am
sure there is some brilliant "bottom line" based marketing reason for that
fact, but I still find it annoying. That's the first place I tried and no
joy. Mind you, I have written them a few times over the months hoping for
better results and not once even received a reply.

When I first tried the U.K. version of the site the other day (Saturday
evening my time) I was clicking on the shop link, typing "Throbbing Gristle"
as the search term (on the far right) and coming up with a short one page
list of items that were available. None of the items were the Camber Sands
discs. Go figure. Why in the world would I have tried it another way? That
should work and did work - it just returned a very short list of items from
TG that I already owned and no Camber Sands option.

As someone else has already pointed out, entering the search term by hand
yields different results than selecting the option "Throbbing Gristle" from
the list under "artists" (on the far left) - the difference being 17 results
versus 31, respectively. Now that's plain idiotic and not the fault of a
casual browser trying to score her discs.

As I already pointed out about the catalogue page, when you first arrive at
the page for the Camber Sands set you have to scroll all the way to bottom
right and find a rather small and unobtrusive link that reads "Show Price."
It doesn't say anything about availability or even the option to add to a
shopping cart basket until after you hit the link. Again, that's about as
asinine a page configuration as I have yet seen. I scanned the page quickly
looking for a price with the pound symbol and an entry box of some kind - a
quick scan showed no such thing. My eyes did not stick on that pointless
link to "Show price." My apologies. Now maybe I am just a silly girl or
maybe Mute could put the fucking price of the item on the fucking page -
available and obvious, open and notorious, and without any stupid fucking
link that has to be clicked on first!

The way Mute has their site organized is all well and good if you wish to
sell as near to zero of product as you possibly can; but in no way helps the
shopper who is trying to get her ass out the door to make a date but still
order her Camber Sands discs before she leaves for said date. Sure, I was in
a hurry - but the site is built quite poorly and nothing changes that fact.
I mucked with it for a few minutes, assumed the worst because I thought I
had already tried perfectly sensible things trying to order the disc. I
posted here and I was given the heads up on how to proceed differently.

But just because there is an existing navigation solution doesn't make that
navigation technique a good one in terms of the site. If I were Mute and my
programmers were providing me with that kind of crap programming on the
site, somebody would most likely get a talking to or simply get sacked.

I never said that Mute was the worst label in existence, I have merely
complained of some significant navigation issues involving their website.
And I think my complaints are fair.

Thankfully, I have you lot here to help me out when I have already grown
impatient trying to navigate the site for myself. I don't want to reinvent
the wheel, just show me where the wheel is.

Thanks again,

- Louisa



------------------------------

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End of Grief Digest, Vol 31, Issue 4
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