To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.zen
From: tyagI@houseofkaos.Abyss.coM (Hsi Wang Mu)
Subject: Re: Some questions
Date: 49941121
Quoting: |mahababs@ios.com (Barbara O'Brien) 

|Perceptions, opinions, prejudices, etc. get in the way of seeing the 
|world as-it-is; they get in the way of seeing ourselves; they get in the 
|way of living our lives. 

They needn't.  We are told this so we will try to experience an alternative.
Some need to focus upon them in order to release them, however.  In other
words, some need less to 'get rid of them' but to 'go through them'.  When
I am told that they will 'get in my way' then they may indeed frustrate me 
until I see through them like looking through a swiftly moving stream.


|You can function nicely without 'em. Or so I'm told. Zen training works 
|with perceptions and gives you new eyes to see with, metaphorically speaking.

Engages new ways of seeing, yes.


|If you can be brutally honest with yourself for awhile, you will see that 
|it's ALL prejudice, that your judgments, opinions, and catorizing always 
|distort your view of the world. 

They CREATE our views of the world.  They COMPRISE our views of the world.


|Not only are they not helpful, they actually hold you back. They get in 
|the way.

As you believe it, so it is.  For some they are obstacles.  For some they
are tools.  Take care to whom you suggest that they are one or the other.
Some have gone too far into the world of the intellect to simply 'walk away
form it'.  They must use it as a door to let go, as a raft to get to the
Other Side (of experience).


|Compassion is just taking care of yourself, with the understanding that 
|"self" is everyone.

I don't agree with this.  I think that it is fruitless for most not to
begin somewhere, and I have always been taught to start from the center
and work outward, expanding the circle to include as much as is comfortable
to me.  That is, first I care for my body and health, my liberation and
such, and then I move on to a focus upon others and their welfare.  Some
of this is karma.  Without cleaning myself I dirty others.  Part of this
is efficiency.  I cannot assist others in releasing the world when I am
grasping my mother's teat.


|The late Yasutani Roshi often spoke of putting a hand in a fire. If you 
|put your left hand in a fire, your right hand will naturally pull it out, 
|without thinking about it. But if you see someone else put a hand in a 
|fire, maybe you'll hesitate to help. You don't want to hurt; you worry 
|about self-preservation. What would the world be like if we perceive all 
|hands as "my" hand?

What is the sound of one hand burning?  :>  Connection such as you
describe can be attained, yet sometimes it takes a great deal of effort
and patience.  Compassion is very frightening.  Being attached to ourselves
is painful enough.  If we feel our unity with all how much more to hold
onto!  Where shall we start and stop?  What could all this mean?  It can
be very confusing.  I think it is mostly a matter of release.  Our natural
feeling is to care for others.  If we watch ourselves carefully, give to
ourselves as we truly need it (nurturing, not merely entertaining and/or
distracting), then we shall feel deeply also.


|...What the marriage counselor does is get the two of them to 
|let go of their expectations and communicate with each other about their 
|relationship as it is.

Exactly.  Relax.  Let go.  Watch, engage.


|Think of theories as interfaces to reality. Zen says you can function 
|even better without the interface.

I tend to think of it in terms of consciousness models.  We use models
until we're ready to play with the real thing. :>


|Right. So don't buy into 'em. But when the world does something, why do 
|you need a theory to know what happened? 

We need theories to formalize and give familiarity to knowledge.  This sort
of knowledge is like a record-collection.  We never have 'all of it' and it
feeds on itself.

  
|Zen doesn't say you have to discard scientific understanding of 
|astronomy. It says to be careful not to let mental formations get in the 
|way of living your life and interacting with others.

While I would not agree that 'Zen says' anything, I do like the idea that
mental formations need not get into the way of living and interaction.  I'd
go further than most and say that for some they can even become tools to
engage that living and interaction, working through them into what I call
'mondo' or 'ritual'.


|Zen is not a system of thought, but a practice; a way of working with our 
|minds that is not limited to thought. It is perceptual rather than 
|conceptual, intuitive rather than intellectual. If you are out of touch 
|with your intuitive wisdom (most folks are), I can see how Zen would 
|baffle you. 

Zen is also a way of being, a way of life, an approach and an entirety.


|The Buddha taught us not to believe anything....

Lucky you, to learn this from the Buddha directly!  I found that 'not-
believing-in-anything' teaching from my teachers also. :>

Hsi Wang Mu
nagasiva@yronwode.com