From heidrick@well.com Wed Jun 28 22:34:32 1995 Received: from nova (nova.unix.portal.com [156.151.1.101]) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA23974 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 22:34:31 -0700 Received: from well.com (well.com [198.93.4.10]) by nova (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id WAA12345 for ; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 22:34:31 -0700 Received: (from heidrick@localhost) by well.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA23711; Wed, 28 Jun 1995 22:35:17 -0700 Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 22:35:17 -0700 From: Bill Heidrick Message-Id: <199506290535.WAA23711@well.com> To: nagasiva@yronwode.com Subject: Re: Sex Magick: OTO (Was Re: REPOST: OTO Sex Magic.) Newsgroups: alt.magick.sex,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.sex.wizards,alt.magick,alt.magick.moderated X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #1 (NOV) Status: RO 93, Hsi Wang Mu (nagasiva@yronwode.com) asks: >What does 'initiation' mean in terms of these 'Degree Secrets'? Are you >suggesting that the OTO instructs these sex magick practices at various >degrees and requires initiation into its formal structure before allowing >this instruction? Could Frater Heidrick or some other knowledgeable OTO >member verify this? I can't say much, since "OTO XYZ Degree" is stamped all over this post. I have no problem discussing these things from a standpoint of information, only from a standpoint of identifying particular information to particular degrees I've taken and sworn secrecy in. That doesn't inhibit my right to discuss the ideas, just the linkage of such ideas to O.T.O. degrees I've had. OTO and Crowley have been instructing the general public in these matters for many years. _Magick in Theory and Practice_ is chocked full of it. Initiation in O.T.O.'s formal sense includes a ritual of passage into a degree of O.T.O. membership. At present, the entrance into VIIIth through XIth degrees is by formal acceptance by the head of the order. After that, instruction of a more O.T.O. traditional sort is provided, mainly in text. Entrance into the IXth is commonly accompanied by the candidate from VIIIth degree explaining the IXth degree secret as best he or she may in his or her own words. That typically cannot be in simple and plain language, since the secret is not a mere diversion of procreation, as so often discussed. Xth degree is administrative. XIth degree is not available at present outside the decision of the O.H.O.. To request these higher degrees is to be refused admission. Anyone who has time and knowledge should be willing to discuss anything other than proprietary things like signs, grips, words, personal names, content of initiation rituals and what freely discussed knowledge is a part of what O.T.O. degree. Knowledge is never ethically kept secret. Only ephemeral and private business needs to be kept secret. On the other hand, the truth told to a fool is a lie -- your listeners need to signal understanding as that telling proceeds, else you mislead them. >If this is the case, does the Order interpret its >oaths of restriction to apply to secrets learned in association with these >degrees Just the tags. Not what's in the boxes, as long as it's told in your own words. Can you think of a better way to get people to learn something? Here is the secret ... Now, you can tell this to anyone, but you must not say where you learned it or use my words. Be sure you are understood, else stop. Not every restriction is a sin. Some restrictions are gun sights for the mind. Those restrictions are properly not restrictions at all, rather they are places to stand, in the positive aspect of Saturn, from which to move the world. >Such >a circumstance may directly affect my attitude toward future initiation. That's your business, not mine. :-) >What does 'tell Crowley the secret of the 9th' mean? Is 'the secret of >the IX degree' something which CAN be verbalized? See above, and not entirely. There's a mental "set" involved. That can be communicated, but in theory "it takes one to know one". >|That way they would be bound NOT to reveal the secret to anyone. > >This is the reason that it would affect my future with the Order, yes. 1. It's impossible to reveal that particular secret to anyone who doesn't have the preparation for it. The words may come out like some remarkably droll but off beat "birds and bees" thing. If the idea isn't ready to manifest in the mind, it's as useless as a cure for a childhood disease to a mass murderer -- Crowley's image, not mine. 2. The forbidding is simply to the matter being a secret of a particular degree in O.T.O. If you or I or anyone else finds a prepared and questioning mind, it is the law to give what can be communicated. When in doubt, stop by Ancient Ways Store and pick up a "Safe Sex Magick" condom. Whether or not you ever figure out what to do with it and whether or not that doing has anything to do with an O.T.O. degree, at least your odds against AIDS will be better. 93 93/93 Bill Heidrick, speaking for himself.