From: nagasiva@yronwode.com (nagasiva) To: alt.magick.tantra,+ Subject: Survey Results on Tantra (LONG, many responses) Date: 19 Dec 1995 12:03:30 -0800 Reply-To: alt.magick.tantra Summary: This is a compilaton of survey responses on the subject of 'tantra'. Keywords: tantra surveys faqs old kaliyuga 49951218 Below please find about a number of responses to a survey I posted several times in soc.religion.eastern and other newsgroups. They are intended as educational files and not as The Answers, especially since they seem to VARY! ;> nagasiva nagasiva@yronwode.com --------------------------------------------------------------- surveys begin Tyagi posted the questions and here I try to share shortly what I have learned during the years I've practiced tantra yoga. First I must make a notion that for me tantra is not sex nor any sexual practice, though surely it has affected my sex-life. |What is tantra? Tantra is an ancient integrated system of spirituality. It is a way and a science of liberation (tra), liberation from crudeness (ta) or liberation through expansion (tan). |What are its elements? I would say unit consciousness (jiiva) and Cosmic Consciousness (Purusha), for the liberation is the unification of those two. More widely one could say that basic concepts - at least some of them - are: Cosmic Consciousness (Purusha/Shiva), Cosmic Energy (Prakrti/Shakti), their unmanifested combination (Nirguna Brahma), manifested combination (Saguna Brahma), involution (Saincara), evolution (Pratisaincara), action (Karma), knowledge (Jinana), devotion (Bhakti), reactions of the actions (Samskara), spiritual practice (Sadhana), liberation (Mukti and Moksa) and dispeller of darkness (Guru). |What distinguishes tantra from non-tantra? I think if something doesn't lead one towards liberation cannot be called tantra. Of course one could say that if it's not from the tantric tradition so it's non-tantra, but how do traditions come up? |Is tantra an attitude, a belief or practice? It's a practical science, so one can apply it in ones life as an attitude, it's not a belief but as anything it requires an open mind to be tried out in practice and it surely is an practice. |Are there common elements in its practice, if it has any? This one is difficult, but I would say that holism and openess, which also explain very much why those sexual practices that are most widely popularized as tantra ever came up. |How do these relate to any common attitudes or beliefs? They are as I said usually more open and holistic than 'common thinking'. Also there is a lot of mysticism in tantra, for it IS mysticism - a pursuit to unite with the infinite. Another good explanation for all the confusion around tantra. |Is it religion(s) or a movement within religion(s)? It's not a religion, it's a spiritual science, which can and has been applied in many religions. |Is it separate from religion entirely? No. |Can Tantra be found in Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism? Surely. |Are there Western equivalents? I'm not familiar with them but I would say yes. Even the Finnish epic Kalevala and it's lost practices can be interpreted with the tantric concepts of the human mind and the universe. |Where did Tantra start? Tantra started in what we nowadays call India around 10000-8000 years ago. It was part of the culture of the Dravidians, who lived there at that time just as the Aryans who around that time were migrating there from the north had their vedic culture. Tantra was first systemized by Sadashiva or Shiva around 7500 years ago. Here's again a chance to get confused - well, if Shiva really was the first tantric master he could not have four arms, three wives though probably. |Is it possible for it to die out? No. :) |Is there an 'ideal' Tantra, regardless how it manifests today? Shiva set the ideal and I think it can still be followed, just if we could only know what he said and did. The tantric texts (64 tantras etc.) were written down only later, they are hard to find at least in English, they are really cryptic (maybe the biggest reason for all the ul's to understand tantra as a sexual practice beacause of the symbolic language used in describing the spiritual unification - maithuna) and even then they are 'just texts'. >From time to time have tantric masters appeared on this planet, renewed the teachings and practices and created changes. Nothing is to be discarded just because it does not belong to the 'tantric tradition' - everything should be examined and found out how much truth and practical value it has. Neither is there no reason to include anything and everything under tantra just because tantra is very tolerant and open. |What are the essentials of 'tantric philosophy' if there is such a thing? |How does this relate to modern Eastern or Western philosophical models? There surely is tantric philosophy and there could be discussion about the western philosophies and tantra but that's not my area of interest. I hope I've answered to some of this already and want just to add a few books I've found enlightening: Namah Shivaya Shantaya by Shrii Shrii Anandamurti The Wisdom of Tantra by Acharya Vedaprajinananda Avadhuta The Serpent Power by Arthur Avalon alias Sir John Woodroffe -- Antti Kivivalli atma moksartham jagat hitayaca =================================================== next survey begins |What is tantra? >From what I've heard, Tantra is a form of practice in which one uses one's everyday, common experiences to further Buddhist practice. | What are its elements? Your common experiences. | What distinguishes tantra from non-tantra? If you use your common experience as a way of furthering your Buddhist practice, that is tantra. If you just experience your common experiences in a common way, that is not tantra. |Is tantra an attitude, a belief or practice? It could be anything. It doesn't matter what you do, it matters why you do it. | Are there common elements in its practice, if it has any? Let me rephrase the question - Does Joe's tantric practice resemble Kathy's? It might, it might not. |Is it religion(s) or a movement within religion(s)? What is a religion? | Is it separate from religion entirely? I don't know. | Can Tantra be found in Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism? Sure. Tantra can be practiced within the framework of eastern philosophies. | Are there Western equivalents? Sure. Tantra can be practiced within the framework of western philosophies. |Where did Tantra start? I don't know. Probably nowhere. | Is it possible for it to die out? I don't know. Probably not. | Is there an 'ideal' Tantra, regardless how it manifests today? Certainly not. |What are the essentials of 'tantric philosophy' if there is such a thing? The essential is meditation. The goal is to realize Buddha nature. There are many, many ways to do this. Tantra is one of them. Tantra is all of them. Tantra is none of them. There is no tantric philosophy. |How does this relate to modern Eastern or Western philosophical models? In the usual way. :) joshp@cmu.edu /o)\ Silent \(o/ Thunder =================================================== next survey begins In article <1vovo8$eqq@pdx1.world.net|Tyagi@HouseOfKaos.Abyss.com writes: |930615 (about a year since last I posted these questions) I wonder why you're posting them again. | | |FOR ANYBODY WHO'D CARE TO POST A RESPONSE: This is like a test at school ;-) or "Write an essay on ... including in your essay the answers to ..." | |Questions on Tantra |_____________________ | The poster that gave a book reference was the most sensible. |What is tantra? I "think" tantra means thread or web. It is a means for obtaining enlightenment. |What are its elements? Meditation practices including yoga, yantra, mantra. Mostly practices that are like "a precious jewel" which should be kept locked tightly in a box. The practices can be dangerous in the wrong hands. |What distinguishes tantra from non-tantra? I "think" focussing on the energy centres. | |Is tantra an attitude, a belief or practice? Practice. |Are there common elements in its practice, if it has any? I think the movement of energy is the common element. It is symbolised by the union of the male and female energies. Shakti and Shiva, Lingam and Yoni. |How do these relate to any common attitudes or beliefs? male - female, yin - yang, left brain - right brain. | |Is it religion(s) or a movement within religion(s)? |Is it separate from religion entirely? |Can Tantra be found in Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism? |Are there Western equivalents? In Hinduism and Mahayana Buddism. | |Where did Tantra start? Ummmm. I suspect it is in the Vedas or at least some ancient Hindu texts. |Is it possible for it to die out? Anything is possible. |Is there an 'ideal' Tantra, regardless how it manifests today? I doubt it. Different things suit different people. But I believe mantra is just one part of tantra and to practise it without the other tantric practices is unwise. | |What are the essentials of 'tantric philosophy' if there is such a thing? Blimey ! I think the union of male and female energy is its basis. But it is a huge huge subject. |How does this relate to modern Eastern or Western philosophical models? Pass. | |_______________________________ | |Tyagi the question-monger Linda. -- Brunel University, Uxbridge, Middlesex, England. janet: Linda.Birmingham@brunel.ac.uk =================================================== next survey begins In article <61297@cup.portal.com|Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes: |FOR THE NEWSGROUP: | |What is Tantra? |Does it have aspects in Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism? |Are there Christian or other orthodox western equivalents? | |Is it a religion or simply a movement within religion? |Is it separate from religion entirely? |Is it an attitude? Yes ;-) I will try to say something about Tantra - my outlook comes from having practiced yoga in the mid 70's in a group which saw its roots as being in Tantra Yoga, and from having done some independent reading on the topic. Tantra is an esoteric branch of both Buddhist and Hindu mysticism. Buddhist and Hindu Tantra have parallel but not identical symbolism, and both have similar practices allied to what we might call yoga. Tantra refers variously to a body of scriptures, a view of the universe, various teaching traditions and practices. Many of the scriptures (Tantras) were translated to English by Sir John Woodruff(?) writing as Arthur Avalon; a few of these translations are available as Dover Book reprints. A book I would strongly recommend for those interested in the cultural context of Tantra is called "The Art of Tantra". Since much of the metaphysics of Tantra can be represented in symbolic or diagramatic form; understanding its art helps convey the world view. Tantra suffers from "bad press" -- some more justified than others -- some branches of Tantra talk about practices with unsavory overtones: for example: meditating in graveyards or using human skulls, eating meat, illicit sex. Discussion of these topics if complicated by the fact that there are multiple interpretations of the esoteric symbolism in the scriptures. These are sometimes refered to as the right hand,middle, and left-handed paths - which vary from the most innocent symbolic interpretations to the most extreme and unconventional. It is possible to view these paths as consistent but suited for different types or to repudiate one or another. Unconventional does not imply immoral, but tends to presume a more mystic approach with more inner guidance. (I was in a group which was more or less in the middle on the average, but with some exceptions. It was sexually liberal for India but conservative for the US and promoted "family values" alongside the path of renuciation.) The sexual aspect of Tantra got more press in the US -- for example there was a forgettable book entitled "Tantra: The Yoga of Sex" -- I can't speak for the sexual form of Tantra since I was not taught it and the second hand descriptions I have are a bit fragmentary. There are some ideas from this that have entered American popular culture which pop up all over. Another aspect of Tantra which seems to have been communicated is the sense of intensity, of struggle. The process of Tantra yoga has been likened to a fire burning away impurities. It is neither an easy path nor a mass movement. |What are its elements? This is going to sound a lot like yoga -- I'm not sure I can say what distingushes Yoga from Tantra, though there is a gradation of intensity. The body/mind/soul of the individual reflects and is structured like the universe. The entire universe is in a cycle of movement from formless to manifest to formless again. The development of human mind is part of that cycle returning to the transcendent. As you think so you become. The manifest universe is vibrational in nature. |What distinguishes Tantra from non-Tantra? One essay on Tantra contrasted the Vedic and Tantric threads in Indian culture - the Vedic emphasis being on ritual, caste and external religion - the Tantric emphasis being on yogic practice, indifference to caste and esoteric internal meaning. |When did it start? It's pretty hard to say. Many schools of Indian thought claim to have older roots than can be justified my modern archiology (read Joseph Campbell for more on this.) The same essay claimed Tantra had roots prior to the Aryan invasion of India. There is evidence for some sort of yoga or shaminism going back a long way but what the idological framework of it was is hard to say. The scriptures themselves have relatively late dates. |Is it possible for it to die out? Sure, why not.... | |What are the essentials of its 'philosophy' if it has one? See the references and discussion above. I don't think I can communicate the essentials -- if I know them -- I can just point you in the general direction of a cluster of ideas and practices. Hindu and Buddhist tantra have detailed cosmologies, but without a connection to yogic practice they are just castles in the air. Tantra has a specific place in the Hindu and Buddhist traditions; at the same time it is possible to draw analogies with other mystical traditions. Like other Eastern cosmologies it has a sense of the size and age of the universe that is easier to put together with modern science, (though the details are another question.) Unlike some forms of christianity, the stress is on practice rather than belief - on this basis Tantra claims to be emperical and self-demonstrating, though the esoteric teachings are passed on by authority more than public demonstration. The subjective aspect - the layers of mind - can be related to psychology up to a point. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Your mileage may vary ;-) ;-) ;-).... I don't claim to subscribe to or practice all the ideas above, I am simply trying to sketch out the outlines of Tantra as I received them from various sources. Someone with different affinities in Eastern thought might take exception to the way this was presented. (I am presently more inclined to see the divine in the world for its own sake, than as an escape hatch to the transcendent. I'm more neo-pagan and less yogic in my attitudes that I once was.) -- Albert Lunde |Interfaith | *Y*Y* "A branch on the Albert-Lunde@nwu.edu | Bisexual | *Y* tree of life" alunde@nuacvm.bitnet | Feminist |.......|......................... =================================================== next survey begins ~Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 14:04:58 -0700 ~From: [Requested anonymity] To: Tyagi@cup.portal.com (Tyagi Mordred Nagasiva) ~Subject: Re: Tantra???? In article <83460@cup.portal.com|Tyagi writes: : 930615 (about a year since last I posted these questions) I wasn't reading alt.magick then. : FOR ANYBODY WHO'D CARE TO POST A RESPONSE: : Questions on Tantra : _____________________ : What is tantra? : ... As a (poor) student and (sometimes) practicioner of Tantra, I have some ideas, or at least some strong opinions. ** OPINIONS ON ** There are many paths of illumination. Tantra is one of them. It is one which I have chosen to devote time to, because I find it the most comfortable (most understandable, least bewildering, least 'arbitrary'). I will describe it in contrast to the Vedanta path, as I understand it. I choose to practice yoga on my path, because of my own personal views. I find the doctine of 'mind-only' almost incomprehensable. I cannot will myself into a state of meditation by sitting only. I can reach a state of physical centeredness via classical yoga poses, which then allows me to quiet my mind. I don't know why, I just know what works. Enough preamble... Vedanta is the path of study. Tantra is the path of action. That is, Vedanta says learn this, learn that. In order to proceed on the path of illumination, Vedanta suggests adherence to a fairly strict set of 'rules.' Tantra, on the other hand, says, try this, try that. In order to proceed on the path of illumination, Tantra suggests performing a less strict set of practices, and contemplating the result. It's like two sets of instructions for building a boat. Vedanta describes what the boat should look like (maybe not just the finish, even at various steps along the way), but it doesn't say what to do. Tantra is a step by step set of what to do, but doesn't describe the boat. Either set can be successfully followed. I prefer the latter. Lets try some questions from the audience: Q. Is Tantra a religion? A. No. One could be a buddhist or hindu, or even athiest and practice Tantra. Of course, some religions which like to enumerate a number of strict rules, might be uncomfortable with Tantra. Q. Is Tantra a yoga. A. Not exactly. It is more like a yogic system. If one follows the Tantric path, one is encouraged to practice many yogas (Hatha yoga, Kryia (sp?) yoga, Raga yoga, Karma yoga, Kundalini yoga, etc). Many of these same yogas are also practiced in Vedanta. Q. You say you practice Tantra; what do you actually do? A. Mostly Hatha yoga, including the classical program, and some poses which I have been 'led' to practice. Also various types of meditation, depending on the situation. Finally certain types of 'centering' practices in daily life (be aware of your whole body as you walk down the street, be continuously aware of your speed as you drive; trite examples, but effective) Even brushing/flossing teeth, and neti become yogic 'exercises'. I printed out your message t find some more questions... Q. What are it's elements? A. I'm doing this off the top of my head. Get a good text. I'd recommend a text by Saraswati Janakananda. I can't remember the title. I'll dig it up if you want. Q. What distinguishes Tantra from non-Tantra? A. See Tantra vs Vedanta, above. Q. Is tantra an attitude (No.), a belief (No.), or a practice? A. More like a coherent set of practices. Tantra is a path of illunination based on increasing awareness through the practice of paying attention (concentration) to both your actions and experiences. There are a large number of practices (exercises, activities, yogas, make up you own word) which Tantra recommends to pursue this path. Many are common to other paths. There is a slight attitude component to Tantra, in that it is more experimental and experiential than most paths. Q. Why do people get excited and mention sex when they hear the word Tantra. A. There are several factors, all of which are related to each other: 1. To "the social fabric" (both Eastern and Western), sex is a strictly regulated activity. There are only three 'valid' uses for sex: a. Procreation (making babies) b. Gratification (copulation, etc, for the fun of it) c. Profit (prostitution) These are ranked from 'best' to 'worst', but all are socially acceptable. Any other use of sex (if you can find one) is strictly taboo. We'll come back to this thought. 2. Tantra, because of its experiential nature, treats sex just like any other human activity (can you say 'level playing field'?). When anked by the Tantric student "what is right/wrong about sex", the 'master' says "try it, experience it, comtemplate it, and decide... and by the way, here are a set of instruction to make you as aware of the experience as possible." Remember, Tantra is a 'how-to-' manual, not a set of rules. 3. Back to the social fabric. Now, to suggest suggest that communion with the godhead can be achieved through the practice of sex is not just taboo, it is social and religious heresy. People are either repulsed, or fascinated, or both. But it does get their attention. End of questions. Almost. I want to get back to one point... Q. What is the connection between Tantra and attitude? A. Tantra is a remarkably attitude (judgment) free system of practices. For that reason, 'belief systems' that require certain attitudes to be either present or absent denounce Tantra as inferior. Tantra is not an attitude, but many social apologists will describe it negatively because of their attitudes. ** OPINIONS OFF ** I said that I am a (sometimes) practicioner. I am not a 'pure Tantrist.' I pursue illunination via awareness through the practice of yoga. I also pursue illumination via will through the practice of dreaming. I am not particularly dedicated to/good at either. I am familiar with both. =================================================== next survey begins In article <61297@cup.portal.com|Tagi@cup.portal.com (Tagi Mordred Nagashiva) writes: |What is Tantra? |Does it have aspects in Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism? |Are there Christian or other orthodox western equivalents? | [stuff deleted] |What are the essentials of its 'philosophy' if it has one? |How does it relate to modern Eastern or Western philosophical models? | |Does it have common elements in its practices? |How do these relate to its philosophy? | |Is there an 'ideal' Tantra, regardless of how it manifests today? |What is this like? Tantra is generally associated with the mystical practice of sex, but this does a disservice to tantric thought. The basis of tantric religious practice, whether under buddism or hinduism, is a rejection of the idea that physical existence is something to be overcome. The tantric believes that physical experience is not just a cosmic oversight, but is in fact the path to spiritual awareness. The tantric therefore embrasses intense physical experiences, such as sex, pain, taste, smell, or exhaustion. While many practitioners of yoga are working toward overcoming the maya, or veil of seperate physical existence, those who embrassed tantric thought became interested in finding the physical paths to higher consciousness. Thus tantric yoga consists largely of sexual/spiritual practices. Because many cultures are uncomfortable with sex, particularly ours, this aspect of tantric practice has captured all the headlines, and leads to a perception that tantra is little more than an extension of the Kamma Sutra. As to the question of western alternatives, I think Mathew Fox's call for Catholic participation in native spiritual experience follows similar lines., Like the tantrics, he is opposing a view of physical existence which says the goal is to get beyond it and reach a satisfactory afterlife. He calls for more experience in this life, and in particular he appeals to people to experience the sacred in nature and human experience. Feel free to flame me for making this stretch in comparing two very different belief systems, I have thick skin, and my wife still thinks I'm great, no matter what you think. ;) =================================================== next survey begins ~From: philip@netcom.com (Phil Stephens) ~Subject: Re: Tantra Questions To: spirit@blowfish.taligent.com ~Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 0:42:45 PDT Tyagi: |930615 (about a year since last I posted these questions) I could wait until someone more qualified responds, but I guess I'm not *that* unqualified. Bear in mind that my information is mostly second hand, ie from books. |FOR ANYBODY WHO'D CARE TO POST A RESPONSE: | |Questions on Tantra |_____________________ | |What is tantra? 'Round herebouts, (Californica), it seems to refer to New Age Sex. Originally it referred to a rather broad catagory of "left hand path" religious sects and approaches within Hinduism and Buddhism. Or so my books tell me. I have a number of books about Tantra, including at least one with hardly any sexual stuff at all but a lot of historical information. One of my favorite books has lots of practical stuff about yoga and diet and meditation, and one whole chapter on sex. Other books concentrate on how to do the sexual part, and give only passing mention to the historical roots. Then again, another favorite of mine is _Masturbation,_Tantra_and_Self_Love_ by Margo Woods (oops, can't find that book right now to check that I have title and author correct), in which she speaks from her own experience and encourages ignoring the text books. | What are its elements? | What distinguishes tantra from non-tantra? Depends. Which tantra? |Is tantra an attitude, a belief or practice? Yes. Examples can be found for each or all. | Are there common elements in its practice, if it has any? | How do these relate to any common attitudes or beliefs? I have insufficient data. I know books better than practicioners. |Is it religion(s) or a movement within religion(s)? | Is it separate from religion entirely? | Can Tantra be found in Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism? | Are there Western equivalents? I guess all of these depend on to whom you talk... historically, the word was used w/i those religions. But the word is currently being used in other contexts that are not religious and not neccessarily spiritual, such as for very languid extended non-goal-oriented sexual sensuality. Most often when I have heard the word used it is for sexual activity with a focus on spiritual awareness, spiritual oneness, or tripping out (nirvhana). |Where did Tantra start? | Is it possible for it to die out? | Is there an 'ideal' Tantra, regardless how it manifests today? Well, some folks claim it predates all other religions by tens or hundreds of thousands of years. I have no opinion on that, simply unresolvable. The other two questions depend on which definition you are using. I very concept of "ideal" would be antithetical to some forms, and quite central to others. |What are the essentials of 'tantric philosophy' if there is such a thing? |How does this relate to modern Eastern or Western philosophical models? Guess it depends on who you ask. I would rather know what you want from tantra, so that I would have some idea of which sources (textual and human) to recommend. For my own part, I have recently expressed my interest in terms of seeking an altered state of consciousness that is both intesnsely spiritual and intensely sexual. My religious/spiritual values (more or less neo-pagan) are implicite in a way, but that is background or foundation rather than objective. The various descriptions of "tantric" sexual technique are *to me* possible means to an end, where that end is a state of mind, and experience, that transcends ordinary sex while being also very well integrated into the physical act. Aside: my personal view of tantra, now that I'm getting into that subject instead of answering questions about tantra in general, is that you can drop much of the traditional ritual, and especially that you can drop all of the traditional dogma about genders and yin/yang and what exactly the energy is doing. Not that all of the tradition is pointless or wrong, but that if you happen to have a partner of the same gender, no problem; if you don't believe in kundalini energy, no problem; if you can't hold some particular posture for long periods of time and or can't maintain an erection while doing what some particular source suggests, no problem. In Pagan/Wiccan terms, the point is the raising of energy, not the satisfaction of detailed traditional scripting. Hope I'm making sense. I don't have time to proofread and condense this as much as I would like. |_______________________________ | |Tyagi the question-monger Bounder, aka Sharihatsu (Japanese pronunciation for Gautama Buddha's most intellectual disciple, reputedly last to attain enlightenment.) =================================================== next survey begins ~Date: Fri, 10 Jul 92 11:39:51 EDT ~From: Raja Seth What is Tantra? | |I can only say what I picked up from Chinese/Japanese Tantric Buddhism (of |the Tendai and Shingon traditions). According to a Tendai priest I spoke to, |"tantra" and "sutra" both means "threads". (I know no Sanskrit so please |correct me.) He says that sutras are like horizontal threads while tantras are |like vertical threads and together they form a firm fabric, a net to save |beings. Till now, I still have not figure out what actually "tantra" means in |particular. I think it represents a whole class of "things" including mandala, |mantra, mudra and dhyarani (spell ?). | I attended a lecture on Tantra here in the Vedanta Center. This what I remember from the lecture. The word Tantra comes from the Sanskrit root "tan" meaning "to spread". So Tantra meant "a book which spreads knowledge". Earlier any book could be called as Tantra but in due course of time the word Tantra came to identify only "certain" kind of knowledge. So tantra does not refer to a single book but a collection of books. Old India is assumed to have three different regions and each region had 60 books under Tantra giving rise to total 180 books. The school of Tantra is as old as Vedic school and was developed in parallel to Vedic literature. The Tantras spread to Tibet, China etc and it mixed with others Tantras there. Also, Tantra from Tibet, China etc travelled to India and got mixed with exisiting Indian/Hindu Tantra. The concept of Kundalini (spiritual energy), Chakras (7 spiritual centers on the spinal chord) etc are coming from Tantra rather than from Vedic Philosophy. Most of present day Hindu rituals are based on Tantra. The ritualistic worship is wholely based on Tantra. For example, the Disha-bandhan (nyasa: to create protective spiritual shield), Shodasha-Upachaar Pujaa (16 course worship?) etc are described in Tantras. |The two Japanese traditions differs sharply in that one is an "exoteric" |while the other is "esoteric". By "exoteric", it means the revelations of |Sakyamuni Buddha (in the traditional sutras). By "esoteric", Shingon insists |that it is the Dharmakaya (personified by Mahavairocana) who "revealed" is |the Enlightener. So Shingon claims to go directly to the source rather than |through a Manifested Body of the Dharmakaya (i.e. Sakyamuni). | |In practice, the principle aspect of Shingon practice is the "Three |Secrets" - Body, Speech and Mind. "Body" means mudra, "speech" means mantra |and "mind" means meditation (on mandalas). A practicitioner is suppose to |perfect these three aspects simultaneously at which time he is by body, speech |and mind unified with the Dharmakaya. So Shingon insists that even with a |physical body, should these three aspects be perfected, one is a Buddha. | |Dhyarani are "blessing charms" which is usually treated with some contempt |by the true practitioner. While mantras are suppose to reveal some deep secret |of the universe, dhyaranis are for curing your pains, getting you a nice wife |etc. Unfortunately, today these two are mixed. | |>Does it have aspects in Buddhism, Hinduism and Taoism? Yes. All of them have commmon (due to influences) and unique Tantras. I have no idea about Tantra's in Buddhism or Taoism but I have heard/read that they have their own Tantras. |>Are there Christian or other orthodox western equivalents? Have no idea! |>Is it a religion or simply a movement within religion? Since Hinduism as such is a set of different schools, Tantra in Hinduism is a school of Hinduism and its authority is accepted by Vedic Philosophy. |>Is it separate from religion entirely? Not in Hinduism. It is very much part of Hinduism. |>Is it an attitude? Hinduism believes that one must follow a spiritual practise which will enhance one's natural inclination. So Tantra is "one" of many paths indentified as paths for God realization. One must have an inclination for that path. | | I am not sure about Tantric xxx where xxx is not Buddhism. But Tantric |Buddhism certainly showed heavy borrowings from Hinduism although I do not |think the specifics of the practices are the same. Chinese Buddhism, in general, |has had heavy influences from Taoism, although Taoism persecuted Buddhism |severely in the beginning (Taoists for example forbid Buddhist monks from |wearing robes which was considered "indecent". Therefore, we now have the |unique Chinese Buddhist dressing.) However, even with my limited knowledge, I |dare say that in terms of philosophy, Tantric Buddhism is very much within the |mainstream of Mahayanist thoughts (more so than say early Pure Land before |Shinran). | |>What are its elements? |>What distinguishes Tantra from non-Tantra? As mentioned above, now specific books and their philosophy are called as Tantra. So rest is non-tantra. | |See above. | |>When did it start? For Hindu Tantra, it started in parallel to Vedic school. |>Is it possible for it to die out? Not in its entirety, though parts have been lost and will be lost. As long as there is idol worship, concept of Kundalini and chakras, etc., Hindu Tantra will exist! | |The earliest true Indian Tantric masters I know of is Santadevi. He was an |interesting character. Although treated with much contempt by his |contemporaries because of his "laziness", his compositions were very highly |respected. Of course, then there are Padma Sambhava etc. Tantric Buddhism |was a major subject of study at Nalanda Buddhist University. The fact that |when it was introduced into Japan in the 7th century, it was already very |well developed suggests that it is quite old although it was not mentioned |in the writings of, say, Nagarjuna (I think !!). | |>What are the essentials of its 'philosophy' if it has one? To unite the jiva (soul) via sushumna (through arousing the Kundalini) with the Ishwara (cosmic soul). |>How does it relate to modern Eastern or Western philosophical models? What are the "modern" philosophical models? I have no idea about it. As far as my understanding of Hinduism goes, one can not differentaite philosophy from religion because philosophy in Sanskrit is known as "darshan" i.e. seeing/experiencing rather than just theoretical hypothesis. So if modern philosophical models are put forward by theoreticians like us, then Tantra differs from it in the sense that it has been put forward by people who followed the path and experienced "realization" through it. | |Actually, it has a VERY COMPLEX philosophy. Both form of Japanese Tantric |Buddhism became less popular because the philosophies they inherited were so |complex. Of course, they resorted to magic and blessing to survive ;-) | |>Does it have common elements in its practices? |>How do these relate to its philosophy? | |Sheesh ... you are asking for too much ;-) I can recommend so books on the |subject though (especially on Shingon.) | |>Is there an 'ideal' Tantra, regardless of how it manifests today? |>What is this like? |From the above discussion, we know that it a path or descipline for spiritual progress. So what is "ideal" depends on individual to individual. [some excerpted - tn] Umesh... =================================================== next survey begins