Message-ID: <33700CE9.3BAB@plainfield.bypass.com> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 22:02:33 -0700 From: Phillip & Leigh Hurley Reply-To: lphurley@plainfield.bypass.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win16; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.magick.tantra Subject: Re: Some thoughts about tantra References: <5jts07$bbq@mtinsc03.worldnet.att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: port2.scratch.smallmedia.com Organization: Together Networks - Burlington, VT. Lines: 54 Path: Supernews!supernews.com!newsfeed2.aimnet.com!europa.clark.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-15.sprintlink.net!news.together.net!port2.scratch.smallmedia.com Xref: Supernews alt.magick.tantra:4077 S Stevens wrote: > > I have a question, and it was sparked by my reading of a book on Tantra a few > years ago which I now really regret no longer having to cite and share. In > this book on Tantra, many non-sexual elements of Tantra and traditional > Tantrick practices were explored. The ritual eating of pork by a Moslem or > Hindu follower, for example. From reading this book I got a real feel for a > part of tantra being rebellion, contraryness, exploration of the taboo. This > book dealt a lot in thee left hand path, needless to say. In this context, the > automatic assumption that sexual acts are involved when Tantrick ritual is > discussed seems to me limiting. Indeed, an aspect of the message the book > seemed to be trying to give was one of tantra as rebellion from orthodoxy and > mundane convention. In a society as over-sexed as the modern West, it seems > like deliberate acts of celibacy could be as powerful, possibly very much the > equivalent of strongly sexual rituals and practices which originated out of a > culture of rigid sexual mores. If I had the book here, I could make the point > more clear I am certain. I just can't help but think, though, that unless the > book was totally off base, a lot of the tantra I see people exploring places a > good deal more emphasis on sex than is proper. A few years back, some folk who > hung around on my BBS and I formed a card-carrying group called the Junior > Anti-Sex League (named after the group in Orwell's "1984"). In the enviroment > of the time, (we were all hanging out on the fringes of the local "Adult" Chat > BBSes), it seemed very magickal and to me at least very Tantrick to wave that > card around some. Am I making any sense? All comments and replies are > welcomed. In my opinion as a "left hand" tantric - you are correct in the sense that celibacy as well as sex can also be tantra, for really, all life is tantra. You are also correct that there is a common thread of "rebellious" acts involved. However, the importance of these acts is not rebellion or going against norms per se, so you cannot really call something tantra just because it goes against cultural norms. The essence of tantra is for the tantric to be directly confronted with whatever the tantric fears in such a way that it must be psychologically dealt with - hence the chod ceremony and graveyard meditations to make the tantric face death and come to an understanding of it. Cultural inhibitions, whatever their nature - sexual, gustatory, etc. are fears which need to be worked out for the tantric to progress. And I would strongly disagree with your statement about our culture being over-sexed - I think western culture is VERY sexually repressed, though this makes sexuality manifest in many strange and often disharmonious ways. Most people are walking around with a lot of psychic energy tied up in fears and anxiety about sexuality - jealousy is the big one that comes to mind... I would agree with you that most tantra being taught these days seems to be nice little sexual meditations - true, it's only hitting on a small part of tantra (though just learning to have good sex is a very very big deal for most people). Celibacy in and of itself is of no intrinsic value (neither is having sex) - it's the understanding of the person doing it that makes it powerful or not.. Make Love! Leigh