Path: shell.portal.com!shell.portal.com!not-for-mail From: nagasiva@yronwode.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.sex,alt.religion.sexuality,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.buddhism Subject: HLye: Re: right and left handed tantra Followup-To: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick.sex,alt.religion.sexuality,talk.religion.misc,talk.religion.newage,talk.religion.buddhism,alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan Date: 10 Oct 1995 14:19:41 -0700 Organization: Portal Communications (shell) Lines: 78 Sender: tyagi@shell.portal.com Message-ID: <45eo1d$73n@jobe.shell.portal.com> References: <452b6p$p91@utdallas.edu Reply-To: hl2m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (SkyWarrior) NNTP-Posting-Host: jobe.shell.portal.com Xref: shell.portal.com alt.magick.tyagi:4538 alt.magick.sex:4729 alt.religion.sexuality:8858 talk.religion.misc:181479 talk.religion.newage:43059 talk.religion.buddhism:12076 [from alt.religion.buddhism.tibetan: hl2m@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (SkyWarrior)] tkdong@utdallas.edu writes: > Hi all dharamadilos! What is the difference between right handed tantra > and left handed tantra? The difference based on the lack of yab-yum > deities or it also belong to the difference on practice? > In my country as well as in China, the monks are not allowed to get > married, and I never see a statue of Bodhisattva or a Buddha or a Heruka, > Dharmapalas in position of sexual union lock as those of Tibet. The > Japanese mikkyo seems very familiar to the Tantric tradition in my > country as in China. > Thanks for all your generosity! > May Three Jewels always blessed all of sentient beings! > -- > I am no authority in matters regarding Tantra - either from a scholarly perspective or from a practice perspective! But... since I have today off... I thought I will offer my random thoughts on this matter regarding "left-hand" and "right-hand." I somehow get a feeling that these terms were *probably* used in India when Tantra as a movement emerged. Vedic Indian culture was by and large a "right-hand" culture. The left hand was considered impure and meant for doing "unclean things" (like washing oneself etc). I don't know anything about Hindu Tantra but in some Buddhist tantras the "left hand" began to play an important role. Perhaps to emphasize the break from Vedic ideas of cleanliness and purity (from the ritual point of view), some Buddhist tantras (like the Vajrayogini types) began to emphasize the use of the left hand for ritual matters. For example, one should start with the left hand, take the first step with the left foot etc. Mantras are counted using the left hand fingers and the list goes on. In China, the terms "left-hand" and "right-hand" Tantra (and even Taoism) began to be used as well. I know that some Chinese Buddhist monks will refer to Tibetan tantra as "left-hand" and perhaps used it in a degoratory way! For them, "left-hand" referred to the sexual imagery and supposed sexual practices taught by Tibetan Buddhist tantra. But as far as I am aware of, the terms "left-hand" and "right-hand" Tantra are not used by the Tibetan tradition (at least not in this context). Can anyone verify this? The Mikkyo of Japan (both in Shingon and in Tendai) has its origins in the Tantric lineages that were brought to China in the 7th century or so. As far as I can tell, the Tantric lineages brought to China by people like Subhakarasimha, Amoghavajra, Vajrabodhi and others do not have the type of sexual imagery that is found in later Tantric developments in India. The Tantric practices brought to China were heavily focussed on purity, cleanliness and identification with the Buddha through contemplation, mudras and mantras. In the Tendai tradition, it is said that for one day of Tantric practice, there should be seven days of cleaning and preparation before! It should be mentioned that Tantras that contained sexual imagery (tantras that were later on classified as "anuttara-tantras) did make their way to China sometime in the Sung dynasty. These tantras were translated in to Chinese but I doubt the practice-lineage was brought there. Although Mikkyo in Japan generally lacks any sexual imagery, there is one deity (minor deity) which is found in the "father-mother" form and that's Vinayaka. I can't remember the name off-hand but there was a group of Tantric practitioners in medieval Japan who seemed to be doing somekind of practices that involved sexual practices and they were soon branded "non-Buddhists" or "psuedo-Taoists who practised the Yin-Yang." I will let others comment on the use of sexual imagery in Indian and Tibetan Tantra as I am sure there are lots of you out there who can do a great job at that. Hope these few random thoughts are useful - even if it is only in a random manner! Hun Lye --