From: nagasiva@yronwode.com (nagasiva) Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.islam.sufism,alt.islam,alt.religion.gnostic,alt.religion.islam,alt.consciousness.mysticism,talk.religion.misc Subject: Various: Al Hallaj and An'l Haqq Date: 27 Aug 1997 12:36:21 -0700 Organization: Bay Junction Technology, Inc. Lines: 128 Sender: tyagi@news.bjt.net Message-ID: <5u1vjl$746@bay1.bjt.net> Reply-To: mohsen NNTP-Posting-Host: bay1.bjt.net X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Path: bridge!news1.ValuServe.Com!uunet!in2.uu.net!208.205.34.2!server2.wans.net!uunet!in5.uu.net!news.walltech.com!news.walltech.com!news.ecis.com!news.vaultline.net!news.bjt.net!not-for-mail Xref: bridge alt.magick.tyagi:14852 alt.islam.sufism:2862 alt.religion.gnostic:8742 alt.religion.islam:60582 alt.consciousness.mysticism:13071 talk.religion.misc:323783 [all Orig-To: tariqas@world.std.com] ~From: mohsen [much omitted] You see my friend, the same name "Al-Hallaj" means something different to each person, you see the diversity ? can you see the perfection of God's creation? mohsen ------ "Before" does not outstrip Him, "after" does not interrupt Him "of" does not vie with Him for precedence "from" does not accord with Him "to" does not join with Him "in" does not inhabit Him "when" does not stop Him "if" does not consult with Him "over" does not overshadow Him "under" does not support Him "opposite" does not face Him "with" does not press Him "behind" does not limit Him "previous" does not display Him "after" does not cause Him to pass away "all" does not unite Him "is" does not bring Him into being "is not" does not deprive Him from Being. Concealment does not veil Him His pre-existence preceded time, His being preceded non-being, His eternity preceded limit. If thou sayest 'when', His existing has outstripped time; If thou sayest 'before', before is after Him; If thou sayest 'he', 'h' and 'e' are His creation; If thou sayest 'how', His essence is veiled from description; If thou sayest 'where', His being preceded space; If thou sayest 'ipseity' (ma huwa), His ipseity (huwiwah) is apart from things. Other than He cannot be qualified by two (opposite) qualities at one time; yet With Him they do not create opposition. He is hidden in His manifestation, manifest in His concealing. He is outward and inward, near and far; and in this respect He is removed beyond the resemblance of creation. He acts without contact, instructs without meeting, guides without pointing. Desires do not conflict with Him, thoughts do not mingle with Him: His essence is without qualification (takyeef), His action without effort (takleef). Al Hallaj (A.D. 858- 922) [From: Arberry, A.J., The Doctrine of the Sufis, Publisher: Lahore, Sh Muhammad Ashraf 1966] ------------------------------------------------------- ~From: etbaba@mail.ccnet.com (Earl Turner) [uncited:] > I am sure that Hallaj would not try to convice me that he is Allah, when he >said such things (reportedly) he was allways speaking from a frame of mind >and it isn't all that impossible to learn the different frames of mind ... if >one says "i am God" and is in one frame of mind then it is just delusional >(maybe even harmful to people) but in other frames of mind it is true. > People killed Hallaj because they were stuck in their own frame of mind and >couldn't imagine any other. This is the danger of religion, that even though >it represents a frame of mind that may be a lift to you at tmes, it isn't the >Only frame of mind, there are different frames on the way to God (bacca). > If one learns only one point of view it is like only learning one word of >the dhikr and being stuck in one frozen moment of the whirling movement. That >one word is not the dihikr. In the days when I was trying to get instructed in Sufism, before returning to the Baptist 'Shariat' (an indirect answer to a question about Shariat and one seeking Tassawuf), my teacher used to remark about Mansour (al-Hallaj) that he was one who enjoyed the state of Ain-ul-yaqin, the certainty of sight. When sober, Hallaj saw God and knew perfectly well his distinction from the Divine Unity. But he had a disposition to 'drunkeness' and in the ecstatic state 'exaggerated' his Union with the Beloved, hence the Anal-Haqq. The supreme irony, according to this teacher, was that Junayd, who signed off on Hallaj's death warrant for blasphemy enjoyed the states of Haqq-ul-yaqin and Urf-ul-yaqin. If anyone was entitled to utter the Anal-Haqq, it was Junayd. But he declined to do so as one in the Path of Sobriety. Though Hallaj uttered offense, yet his example points to a great Secret about the Goal of the Path. But in the tradition of the Jewish, Christian and Muslim Communities, this Secret is not to be spoken aloud. Earl Turner Why do the nations rage and the peoples imagine a vain thing? Psalm 2.1 --------------------------------------------------------------- ~From: YahyaM@aol.com The baptism of God is the dyeing vat of Hu, God's absoluteness, in which all colors become one. When the contemplative falls into that vat and you say, "Come out," He says, "I am the vat. Don't blame me." That "I am the vat" means the same as "I am God." The red-hot iron has taken on the color of fire. Sebghat Allah hast khom-e rang-e Hu pis-ha yek rang gardad andaru Chon dar an khom oftad va guyish qom az tarab guyad manam khom la talomm An manam khom khvod ana al-Haqq goftanast rang-e atesh d'rad ella ahanast (Mawlana Jalal al-Din Rumi, Masnavi, II:1345-1347) EOF -- (emailed replies may be posted);join the AMT syncretism!!;call: 408/2-666-SLUG! see http://www.abyss.com/tokus; "Clement of Rome taught that God rules the world with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan." - CGJung