Path: Supernews!supernews.com!kudonet.com!not-for-mail From: nagasiva@yronwode.com (lorax) Newsgroups: alt.satanism,alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan Subject: Etymology of 'Pagan' (was Re: the semantics game) Followup-To: alt.religion.wicca,alt.pagan,alt.magick.tyagi,talk.religion.misc Date: 10 May 1997 02:18:58 -0700 Organization: KudoNet On-Line Services Lines: 106 Sender: tyagi@bjt.net Message-ID: <5l1ei2$762@kudo20.kudonet.com> References: <3370D409.21A1@acs.tamu.edu> <33710002.4687@worldnet.att.net> Reply-To: nagasiva@yronwode.com (lorax) NNTP-Posting-Host: kudo20.kudonet.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 (NOV) Xref: Supernews alt.satanism:67523 alt.religion.wicca:69249 alt.pagan:209850 [cc'd to Kerry and SRP and posted] 49970510 AA1 Hail Satan! Kerry Delf : >And it should be pointed out that not only is Paganism non-Christian, >"non-Christian" IS THE DEFINITION OF "pagan." A slightly less inclusive >definition is "non-JCI." you recently posted something to me about the 'original' definition of 'pagan'. I sought after a source I respect which indicates to the contrary and received an email response. here it was [my comments]: --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~From: Bill Heidrick ~Subject: Re: etymology of 'pagan' 93 [nocTifer] et nomina plurissima, [I have secured permission to repost BH's things; nocTifer wrote:] >recently you derived the etymology of 'pagan' from something earlier than >the Neopagan favor 'paganus, country-dweller', and I wondered if you might >repeat that and its source again to me for the benefit of Usenet. Ok. I've been playing with that one for a little over a year. Although it is the actual origin of the usage, it is so contrary to modern prejudices that neither Christian nor Neo"pagan" can usually tollerate it. The only significant response I got to it was on AOL from U.Wolfe, the Mason. He confirmed it, but most folks can't take it. :-) Here's my post to the Masonic debate forum on AOL: Just to make things a little interesting. Has anyone really considered what "Pagan" signifies? I suggest reading Plutarch's Lives, Life of Numa, p.88 in the Modern Library Edition. The original usage meant "parish", as a division of the country side under authority of an official. If we stuck with that original definition, to be a pagan you would have to live in a parish and go to church! Plutarch lived in the first century of the Christian era. Numa founded the original state religion of Rome, c. mid 1st century after the founding of the City. Many of the terms for Christian clergy and functions were borrowed from Numa's statutes. So, what is "Pagan"? Non-Christian seems to be the common usage. "Christian" seems to be not far removed from the oldest usage, as Christianity emerged under the Roman state, until Constantine's time. Using the term in origin, it would appear that the early Christians became settled "pagans" as soon as they could be accepted. This one is from the Thelema Lodge Calendar, 11/96 issue: On the issue of the origin of the word "Pagan": Many dictionaries state that this term derives from the Latin "paganus" and signifies in origin: a peasant or civilian. This is not correct. The characterization is in the nature of a "glancing blow" at the facts, complicated by over generalization. Sources giving this and related origins for the term "pagan" sometimes state that the source for this information in antiquity is "Plutarch's Lives of the Noble Grecians and Romans", a 1st century biography collection. Specifically, this comes from Plutarch's account of the life of Numa Pompilius, founder of the ancient state religion of Rome, but not the city-state itself. The following is therefore the primary source on the origin of the term "pagan", via English translation of Plutarch's book (John Dryden translation, revised by Arthur Hugh Clough), Modern Library edition, page 88: "Numa, therefore, hoping agriculture would be a sort of charm to captivate the affections of his people to peace, and viewing it rather as a means to moral than to economical profit, divided all the lands into several parcels, to which he gave the name of pagus, or parish, and over every one of them he ordained chief overseers; ..." Thus, although one can positively say that the Latin "paganus", does mean "peasant" or country dweller, this term derives from the usage that a "pagus" was an administrative division of the Roman countryside, not simply that all rural indigenous people were classed as such -- in fact, since the Romans were colonists, it never simply meant "indigenous people" in the old usage. Bluntly, the Roman Christians became pagans and mustered under "parishes" from this original usage. If you wanted to ignore all the twists and turns of usage over the centuries and to stick with the original, you could say that anyone living in a parish and going to the parish church was a pagan. The modern American word for Numa's "pagus" is "county", except in Louisiana, where these land divisions are still called "parish". Of course, in the USA, the connection to a religious hierarchy and temple has been removed from these governmental divisions, by the 1st amendment to the Constitution in the Bill of Rights. Incidentally, one might be tempted to pursue the origin of "pagan" in the Greek, e.g. in the Athenian usage "Areopagus", for the Supreme Court of Justice on the Hill of Aries at Athens, but that means "Aries mount", emphasizing the coldness of the elevation. The Latin apparently derives from the judicial usage, not the word root. Feel free to quote as you please. 93 93/93 Bill ---------- [ps, my review of ARW FAQ to Rain BOUNCED; some reason for this? -- lorax] -- see http://www.hollyfeld.org/~tyagi/nagasiva.html and call: 408/2-666-SLUG!!! ---- (emailed replies may be posted) ---- CC public replies to author ---- * * * Asphalta Cementia Metallica Polymera Coyote La Cucaracha Humana * * *