Path: shell.portal.com!svc.portal.com!sdd.hp.com!usc!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!news.jhu.edu!news From: Genjo Newsgroups: alt.meditation,alt.yoga,alt.zen,alt.magick.tyagi,alt.philosophy.taoism,alt.consciousness,talk.religion.misc,alt.religion.sexuality,alt.magick.tantra,talk.religion.buddhism Subject: Re: Student/Teacher Sex - THE SCORE - (The Roundheads are winning.) Date: 17 Dec 1995 18:12:39 GMT Organization: HCF - Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Maryland, USA Lines: 41 Message-ID: <4b1min$f66@news.jhu.edu> References: <4an9tp$6fv@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com> <4as2or$25l@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <4b07e1$a3d@sundog.tiac.net> <4b0a1t$dc@news.acns.nwu.edu> <4b15rs$6b6@sundog.tiac.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.220.45.19 Xref: shell.portal.com alt.meditation:17600 alt.yoga:3429 alt.zen:19729 alt.magick.tyagi:5558 alt.philosophy.taoism:2403 alt.consciousness:21644 talk.religion.misc:193789 alt.religion.sexuality:9721 alt.magick.tantra:304 talk.religion.buddhism:14129 Jim Williams wrote: > > (BTW -- I have very little sympathy for arguments about the > feelings of people other than the two directly involved. People > should keep their noses out of other people's business.) > I've been reading "Turning the Wheel: American Women Creating a New Buddhism" by Sandy Boucher recently. Deals a lot with this issue of teacher-student sex. It's interesting to note that she doesn't provide any evidence of women who ended up sleeping with their teachers crying "abuse!" (and it's not because she wasn't looking for it.) Rather, where the harm seems to be done is to the *community* when the teacher's behavior is shrouded in secrecy and deceit (e.g. Soen Sa Nim, who was all the while claiming to be a celibate monk). The most interesting case in Chogyam Trungpa -- who was quite open about his philandering (and drinking). While his activities made some people uncomfortable, nobody *blames* him, because it was just he being himself -- and because of his kindness and gentleness. In cases where the teacher is *not* open about his/her activities, the deceit is perpetuated by those (usually top students) "in the know" attempting to protect the teacher... I think the most insightful comment in the book was that most religious traditions attempt to sweep sexuality under the rug as something "impure". We can't deal with the fact that someone may be "enlightened" and also be a lustful dog, so both students and teachers try to hide the lustful dog and see only the (so-called) "enlightened being". Maybe Chogyam Trungpa was different coming out of the Vajrayana tradition which encourages utilizing the energy of the passions... At any rate, Ned, if you've read this far, count me in with the party-hat crowd. Also I would say a sign should be put up over the entrance to the dokusan room: "Warning: The Bull Has Balls." Genjo