Newsgroups: alt.suicide.methods,alt.suicide.holiday,talk.euthanasia,alt.evil Subject: A Practical Guide to Suicide Summary: How to go about terminating your life. Keywords: suicide, guide, reference References: From: nagasiva@yronwode.com (boboroshi/CoE) Reply-To: nagasiva@yronwode.com (boboroshi/CoE) Organization: Church of Euthanasia (coe@netcom.com) Archive-name: suicide/guide Last-modified: 1997/12/29 Version: 1.01 Posting-Frequency: as needed DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT NOT FOR WIDE DISTRIBUTION -- CONTACT EDITOR [SEND COPIES OF YOUR POSTS TO THE EDITOR FOR CONSIDERATION] Location: http://www.hollyfeld.org/heaven/Text/Coe/Friend/faq.suicguide --------------------------------------------------------- CONTENTS ======== A PRACTICAL GUIDE TO SUICIDE I. Preparations A. Contemplating Death B. Imagining Post-mortem World C. Considering the Symbolism of Death and Suicide D. Lying Successfully E. Resolving Life Problems F. Letting Others Assist II. Choosing a Method or Combination of Methods A. Ingestion/Injection/Inhalation 1. Poisons a. Antifreeze b. Cyanide 2. Depressants a. Alcohol b. Barbiturates c. Heroin and other Controlled Substances 3. Inhaling Carbon Monoxide (CO) B. ASPHYXIATION/SUFFOCATION 1. Constricting Circulation a. Leather Strap b. Rope c. Wire 2. Oxygen Displacement a. Ether b. Nitrogen/Helium (Inert Gasses) c. Carbon Dioxide/Suffocation (CO2) d. Nitrous Oxide (N2O) e. Water/Drowning (H2O) C. DAMAGE (Physical Methods) 1. Decapitation a. Guillotine b. Hanging 2. Pithing a. Hanging (Neck Break) 3. Electrocution 5. Hypothermia a. Snow b. Water 6. Immolation 7. Exsanguination/Bloodloss a. Major Arteries/Veins b. Wrists 8. Weapons a. Explosives b. Guns i. Shotgun ii. Death-By-Police D. IMPACT 1. Devices a. Crushing Machines 2. Weights 3. Heights (Falling) a. Bridges b. Buildings c. Planes 4. Vehicles a. Trains b. Trucks E. COMBINATION 1. impact/decapn (piano wire jump) 2. poison/asphyx (pills and bag) 3. poison/asphyx/hypotherm (alcohol/ leaky boat in cold water) F. MYTHS 1. air vein-injection (??) 2. body paint (Goldfinger) 3. pencils jammed up nose (highschool) 4. sucking out brain (through eyes, etc.) ================================================================= PREP I. Preparations A. Contemplating Death (the experience itself, what we imagine or fantasize will happen at the time of death, what we would like to have happen, what we have been taught will happen and how we feel about that, how we feel about the encounter with the unknown that death will be) To: alt.suicide.holiday From: stop-picking@that.rightnow (just another onionhead) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 02:36:58 GMT ...the thing that kept me from doing it was not that I wanted to live but that I was just too fucking scared of dying. And it wasn't _being_ dead that frightened me, it was the _dying_ part. The Trip form Here to There. It makes me shiver right now, thinking about that night. I'm just a coward, basically - this makes me wish I were dead, but at the same time it keeps me alive. Same old stuff. :( Maybe it was the method I chose that made it so difficult for me (hanging can be pretty gruesome if you don't do it right), but I can see where it might be the same with a shotgun. I suppose that when your conscious mind is aware that you're about to hit the Full Stop button, it's gonna fight pretty goddamn hard to keep you from doing so. The actual reasons are probably different for each individual. For example, [omitted] might be less fearful of the journey and more of the destination. [omitted] >I have often thought that the reason people commit >suicide is that they care too much about what >other people think. Actually, that's one of the things that _keeps_ me from doing it. ---------------------------------------------------- B. Imagining post-mortem world (what things will be like after we have died, what changes our family and friends will make, how our death will affect them and how they will transform because of our action, how our suicide might be seen and whether it will be understood for what it is or if it will be misinterpreted somehow (e.g. as 'mental illness') C. Considering the symbolism of death and suicide (how what we are fantasizing might factor into something we want on a deeper level than a literal interpretation, like a "death of the self", "death to the world", "death and rebirth", and how these might be spiritual experiences) D. Lying successfully (what to say and how to say it so as to resolve emotions with people we know and love but still keep them in the dark about what we are planning to do without giving our intentions away) re whether people will know we intend suicide: --------------------------------------------- if you have attempted it before, they may suspect something is 'wrong' due to the sudden change in your attitude. doctors and/or media may have given them lists of 'signs to look for that indicate impending suicide', like a sudden resolve, openness, desire to let go of past issues with family, giving away one's possessions, etc. read the Encouraging Suicide FAQ if you want to see a thorough list. it is as important to us to know what will tip people off if we are intending suicide (or looking for people to pact-suicide with) as it is for those who want to thwart our wills once we have decided that death is the choice we desire. E. Resolving life problems (relationships, debts, discontinuing services, body disposal) From: nagasiva@yronwode.com (boboroshi/CoE) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:12:31 -0700 (PDT) [re suicide note] recommended: I, _______________, being of sound mind and body, will kill myself in service to the organism who bore me. my sacrifice will relieve a little of the suffering and tragedy that my species is creating and serve as a symbol of responsibility. F. Letting others assist (making sure they don't suffer any sort of repercussions, legal hassles, etc.) METHODS II. Choosing a Method or Combination of Methods RATINGS FORMAT METHOD -- what the method is called AVAILABILITY/ACCESS -- how easy it is to achieve EXPERIENCE/SYMPTOMS -- what it will feel like ability to induce loss of consciousness and death without causing pain, distress, anxiety, or apprehension DURATION (PAIN/DEATH) -- how long it will take to die time required to induce unconsciousness EFFICACY -- how sure we can be it'll work age and body limitations COLLATERAL DAMAGE -- what other damage might be done DOSAGE/EQUIPMENT -- what items are needed SKILLS/EXPERTISE -- what we need to know how to do MYTHS/INACCURAIES -- false stories about it ---------------------------------------------------------- A. Ingestion/Injection/Inhalation 1. Chemicals a. Antifreeze To: alt.suicide.holiday From: bill lippencott@omserver2.cv.hp.com (bill) Date: 30 Sep 1997 06:01:02 GMT In article <19970930045700.AAA23984@ladder01.news.aol.com>, twright603@aol.com (TWright603) says: >60 minutes ran a story about antifreeze being mixed in >children's cough medicine and killing them. Has any one >heard of this as a suicide method? How quick would it >be? Would it burn? Perhaps it could be mixed? It is >supposed to taste quite sweet. Let me know your thoughts. >I've also heard of mixing bleach and amonia in a toilet >or bucket - the fumes can kill I'm told. Any truth? Thanks. Mixing bleach and amonia is toxic but it would have to be inhaled as a very concentrated gas... I guess. I didn't die while using this mixture for cleaning, but somehow it caused a gold ring on my finger to break like glass. Antifreeze IS toxic when ingested, tastes sweet and doesn't burn your mouth or throat... lower orifaces however may get tender. ----------------------------------------------------------- b. Cyanide anonymous: I've mentioned before that the cyanide constituent in kernels of almonds, peaches, apples, cherries, and apricots is not free hydrogen cyanide, which is a gas; rather, the compound is amygdalin. It is cyanide bound safely to benzaldehyde and glued shut with a couple of sugars. (For a picture, look in the Merck Index, or visit http://www.gov.sg/moh/mohiss/poison/pgamygdl.html ) As long as the molecule remains intact, it is harmless. Strong acid should decompose the compound to release free HCN, but I was wondering whether stomach acid is strong enough. Turns out, it isn't. The neat thing about these plant seeds is that the compound is packaged within them separately from three enzymes that rapidly decompose amygdalin. So when the seed is thoroughly crushed under moist conditions, that is when HCN is released--an effective defense against insect predators. A biologist is studying how the enzymes are manufactured separately from amygdalin and compartmentalized into different tissues within black cherries.... Humans have bacteria in our gut that manufacture beta-glucosidase, and to a degree this enzyme can act to release HCN as well, but there are other enzymes and processes that can act to transform HCN to the harmless thiocyanate nearly as fast. Amygdalin was given as a quack, heavily promoted cancer treatment in the seventies. It was variously known as Laetrile, and even passed off as Vitamin B17, which ostensibly was a nutrient that would prevent one from getting cancer. Now, this was purified amygdalin, without the enzymes that would cause it to spontaneously breakdown, so people could ingest gram amounts daily without tremendous side-effects. (The theory was that cancer cells would possess more b-glucosidase than normal cells, so cyanide would selectively kill them over normal cells; but these ideas about the disparity or even presence of these enzymes was shown to be simply not true. And there were rigorous, double blind studies that demonstrated no benefit to laetrile in the treatment of cancer.) Lethal or near-lethal cyanide poisoning using laetrile would usually involve ingestion of gram amounts of the purified 'drug' along with a source of the hydrolyzing enzymes. In one case, a man ate a lot of bitter almonds one day. In another, a woman ate freshly crushed apricot pits with her laetrile pills. Most of the poisonings (except in children) were nonlethal, and side-effects were severe and damage occasionally permament. Laetrile is still available in Mexico, and in fact I found a place on the web where one could apparently order some, but they have a screening process of sorts and depending on your location may not be able to deliver. ------------------------------------------------------ anonymous: > but then if what you say is true if we crush the seeds > and eat them, the enzymes within the seeds themselves > should activate to release the cyanic acid group. Yep. In fact, if you eat the seeds, you will be releasing some HCN. I like eating apple seeds because the benzaldehyde that is released along with the HCN has a pleasing almondy taste. ([omitted] suggested it is rather like Dr. Pepper, and I think that's so.) Anyway, you'd want the seeds to be thoroughly crushed _and moist_, and ingested immediately. (Alternatively, find some way to harvest the gas.) The issue is quantity. How much would you have to cram into your stomach to get several grams of amygdalin? And it's possible, too, that the enzymes won't work as well once they're in the mildly acidic environment of the stomach. About that I'm not sure. But if it simply slowed down hydrolysis, the poisoning would be time-released; excruciating, prolonged, and not necessarily effective. So yes, certainly a possible method. This would not be my choice, though; I wouldn't even consider it. ------------------------------------------------------------ anonymous: > Anyway, you'd want the seeds to be thoroughly crushed _and > moist_, and ingested immediately. (Alternatively, find some > way to harvest the gas.) on that point, i imagine a contraption: an industrial size, airtight crushing device, where peach pits are compressed and mixed in a small amount of water. maybe heated somewhat above room temperature. this is connected to tubing that bubbles through a solution of potassium hydroxide. when the pH of the solution becomes neutral, there are the same number of molecules KCN as there were KOH. ----------------------------------------------------------- To: talk.euthanasia,alt.suicide.holiday From: nagasiva@yronwode.com (boboroshi/CoE) Date: 13 Sep 1997 13:25:40 -0700 I was reading _The Big Book of Death_ this morning (recommended!!!), from Factoid Books, 1995, and in the chapter on Capital Punishment ('Capital Punishment, It's a Gas') a comic panel read: Deadly gas is released when cyanide pellets are dropped into shallow pans of sulfuric acid mixed with water. and it goes on to describe the symptoms of cyanide poisoning as including gasping, wheezing, thrashing, screaming, crying, faces turning purple, tongues sticking out, drooling, and that this doesn't happen 'particularly fast'. all in all I'd suggest it may not be a very effective method of suicide (in the sense of painless at least). and yet, what is the comparative concentration of the 'gas chamber pellet' to the crushed peach pit? what would the likely differences be between inhaling and ingestion, where death is concerned? are not the 'cyanide pills' used for quick-acting deaths among spies? ---------------------------------------------------------- 2. Depressants a. Alcohol ---------------------------------------------------------- b. Heroin and other Controlled Substances To: alt.suicide.holiday From: rorsch@senet.com.au (rorschach) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 06:11:57 GMT selfdeath@aol.com (Selfdeath) wrote: >>Yummy. DH is a waste of time, get some street grade >>smack. Much nicer way to go, if you don't get the >>shit beat out of you procuring it. > > ...My objective is NOT to get high, you idiot. >Also, the risk factors for procuring the smack are >too high. Death from street smack is uncertain. >Besides, I don't know where I would get it from. Death from heroin is very certain if you inject enough of it and (most importantly) are not 'rescued'. Parameds just give you a shot of norcain? and all effects of H disappear almost straight away. It can be purchased in any bigish city. Good dealers are quite used to transactions with professionals and 'straight' people but are quite expensive. Of course it is a controlled substance and you will be charged if caught by law enforcement so the risk factor is quite high. In high doses it kills by turning off the brain, specifically the part of the brain that controls breathing. It's NOT like asphyxiation, your body doesn't cry out for air or anything it just forgets that it needs to breathe and you just fade away. It lower doses it doesn't turn off the brain so far, just enough to make you forget external stimulii and the world. ----------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.finals From: White Spirit Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 16:32:53 +0000 Friendly wrote: > I have on hand about 1 gram of codeine (actually is > 150 tablets of 375 mg Acetylsalicylic Acid with 8 mg > Codeine.) If you use the codeine dissolve the tablets in 2ml water/tablet and pass the liquid through a coffee filter. Keep the liquid and throw away the aspirin. > According to info on a couple web pages, the > combination of codeine and dimenhydrate can induce > deep sedation. Is this reliable? Only with a plastic bag. Codeine inhibits itself when taken orally so is not the best method to use. Combine the codeine and diphenhydramine with cyanide, preferably straight into your veins, and then it should hopefully be fairly painless. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods From: bye bye birdi Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 14:21:49 GMT [quoting someone else] > i obtained quite a bit of valium and halcion from > mexico. i figured that's probably as good as i can do > since i can't get my hands on barbiturates. benzos > are incredibly easy to get in mexico (of course i > realize for some people that trip is out of the > question). i don't think they're too tough to get > from american docs either. as long as you're using > the bag, you don't need a big supply - just enough to > knock you out. if you can't get any benzos, then OTC > sleeping pills might still work. i guess > diphenhydramine would probably be the best of those. > and alcohol always helps with any of these drugs. ----------------------------------------------------------- c. Barbiturates and 'Sleeping Pills' from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Barbituric Acid Derivatives [injected] Barbiturates depress the central nervous system in descending order, beginning with the cerebral cortex, with unconsciousness progressing to anesthesia. With an overdose, deep anesthesia progresses to apnea, owing to depression of the respiratory center, which is followed by cardiac arrest. Barbiturates have rapid onset of action.... Desirable barbiturates are those that are potent, long-acting, stable in solution, and inexpensive. Sodium pentobarbital fits these criteria and is most widely used, although others such as secobarbital are acceptable. A primary advantage of barbiturates is speed of action. This effect depends on the dose, concentration, and rate of injection. Barbiturates induce euthanasia smoothly, with minimal discomfort to the animal.... Intravenous injection is necessary for best results, necessitating trained personnel.... Current federal drug regulations require strict accounting for the barbiturates and these must be used under the supervision of personnel registered with the US Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). ------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: jbentley Date: 29 JAN 1996 05:52:27 -0500 I grabbed this out of a book called The Prediction of Suicide by some lame psychiatrists, but I thought this list was informative... # Toxicity Chart: 30 Toxic Drugs Frequently Used # in Suicide Attempts # # Key: 1000 milligrams (mg.) = 15 grains (gr.) = 1 gram (gm.) # # MLD = Minimum Lethal Dose # # Notes: # 1. Special adjustments for scoring are found at the # end of the chart. # 2. If tablet strength is recorded, make sure the # common dosage in column four corresponds with # the strength ingested. dosage in column four # corresponds with the strength ingested. # # Toxicity: Mild = 0-33% of MLD, # Moderate = 34-66% of # Severe = 67%+ of MLD # # Commonly Est MLD # Available # of tablets # Drug Est. MLD Doses at most # common dosage # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Aspirin, Bufferin 5 gr. 90/5 gr. # (acetylsalicylics) 30 gm. (.33 gm.) # Anacin, Excedrin # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Amytal (anombarbital) 1.5 gm. 15,30,50,100 mg. 30/50 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Benadryl # (diphenhydramine) 3 gm. 35, 50 mg. 60/50 mg. # 47%Benadryl # (diphenhydramine) 3 gm. 35, 50 mg. 60/50 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Butisol (butabarbital)1 gm. 15,30,50,100 mg. 30/30 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Carbrital # (pentobarbital +) 1 gm. 75,100 mg. 10/100 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Darvon (propoxyphene) 2 gm. 30,65 mg. 30/65 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Demerol (meperidine) 1.2 gm. 50,100 mg. 24/50 mg. # -------------------------------------------------------------- # Dilantin # (diphenylhydantoin) 3 gm. 30,100 mg. 30/100 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Doriden (glutethimide) 8 gm. 250,500 mg. 16/500 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Dramamine # (dimenhydrinate) 5 gm. 50 mg. 100/50 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Elavil (amitriptyline) 3 gm. 10,25,50 mg. 120/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Equanil, Miltown # (meprobamate) 15 gm. 200,400 mg. 38/400 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Felsules # (chloral Hydrate) 10 gm. 250,500 mg. 20/500 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Librium # (chlordiaepoxide) 5 gm. 5,10,25 mg. 500/10 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Luminal (phenobarbital) 1.5 gm. 15,30,100 mg. 40/30 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Mellaril (thioridazine) 3 gm. 10,25,50,100 # 150,200 mg. 100/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Nembutal (pentobarbital) 1 gm 30,50,100 mg. 10/100 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Noludar (methyprylon) 5 gm. 50,200,300 mg. 17/300 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Nytol, Sominex # (methapyrilene +) 3.5 gm. 25,50 mg. 140/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Percodan # (dihydrophydroxy-codeinine) # .5 gm. 4.5 mg. 125/4.5 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Placydil (ehtchlorvynol) 15 gm. 100,200,500 mg. 30/500 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Seconal (secobarbital) 1.5 gm. 30,50,100 mg. 15/100 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Seraz (oxazepam) 10 gm. 10,15,30 mg. 333/30 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Stelazine (trifluoperazine) # 2.5 gm. 1,2,5,10 mg. 500/5 mg. # ---------------------------------------------------------------- # Thorazine # (chlorpromazine) 2.2 gm. 10,25,30,50,75,200 mg. 44/50 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Tofranil (imipramine) 2.5 mg. 10,25,50 mg. 100/25 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Tuinal # (amo/secobarbital) 1.5 mg. 50,100,200 mg. 15/100 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Valium (diazepam) 8 gm. 2,5,10 mg. 1600/5 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Valmid (ethinamate) 15 gm. 500 mg. 30/500 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # Veronal, Bs (barbital) 3 gm. 15,30,300 mg. 100/30 mg. # --------------------------------------------------------------- # # Special Adjustments for Scoring: # 1. When any ingestion is accompanied by ETOH # (ethyl alchohol), increases the toxicity # level by approx 50% # # 2. If it is established that a person is a # regular drug user, then raise the number of # milligrams for MLD by 33% ----------------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Marc Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 14:37:52 +0100 Malcolm Thomas wrote: > >> Just curious, but how probable would a fatal OD > >> be if you took too many barbituates or > >> benzodiazepines? Alcohol increases the > >> likelihood right? > > What about the benzos? How much is required? If you want to do it with any benzo shit, just one caution: if take them too slowly, there is a chance that you soon will be so out of it that you won't be able to (as in too stoned) to get round to taking the rest. When I first tried to commit suicide it involved diazepam (valium) and after a while I was floating high among the clouds and didn't remember a thing till I woke up in hospital next morning. From what I read in the methods file you'll need alcohol as well (I think). --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Edmund E Ong Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 13:24:57 -0700 I took a look at "Final Exit", and according to the author benzos are pretty unreliable without the infamous plastic bag. The best way to go out with drugs is through a fast-acting barbituate such as Seconal or Nembutal. Phenobarbital is not as good because it is slow-acting. The only problem is that it is quite difficult to obtain a prescription for Seconal/Nembutal...docs aren't stupid. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Cerkit [Breaker]" Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 12:34:07 -0700 no@address.com wrote: > Can anyone provide information on caffeine overdose > as a suicide method? The methods file says that a > dosage of 20 grams is required; easy to get from > wake-up pills. But it doesn't have any information > on time, certainty, unpleasantness etc. Is this > a good method? I would think not. I've taken a few too many of those pills before, just for fun, and I ended up passing out in a puddle of my own vomit behind a movie theatre. I was drunk and high at the time too, but it was the caffeine that took me overboard; it was one of the more unpleasant things I've experienced physically. ----------------------------------------------------- anonymous: The way I managed to get some barbiturates (seconal) was to call a psychiatrist and tell him that I was in the process of looking for work and and was unable to fall asleep the night before an interview due to extreme anxiety which would then lead to my blowing the interview. I had tried all of the milder tranquilizers without effect and so needed something really strong to knock me out on the night before an interview. That way the shrink didn't have to worry that I might become dependent on a barbiturate since I'd only be taking it intermittently and for a short term. I also told him that I had been prescribed seconal for a similar purpose before and had taken it very successfully for relief of short-term anxiety without any problems but the doctor who prescribed it had since moved his practice. The key to this approach is not to reveal any clues to your underlying suicidal ideation and present yourself as having no major psychological problems other than short-term situational anxiety. The first two shrinks I called with this approach were both willing to prescribe it to me. I don't plan to use my stash in the near future but felt a desperate need to have the option available if and when I choose use it. ------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: und@eab.le (Ludolf Wittgenplastic) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 23:34:11 GMT ...Some twelve years ago, I tried to off myself.... I decided to OD on psychopharmakons. I was fucking scared though, but reasoned that I could back out any time. Funny thing was, after swallowing some 20 of these, all fear vanished, and the only thing I felt was an immense joy to finally get over with it -- and I quickly gulped down the rest of the 100 or so. What I didn't realize was that you can literally swallow thousands of those without dying. Anyway, YMMV but I've found these pills (they were meant to fight depression and anxiety in the first place) extremely potent to overcome the survival instinct. If your brain works like mine, you won't give a damn. --------------------------------------------------- 3. Carbon Monoxide (CO) from http://www.csia.org/home/cohazard.htm WHAT IS CARBON MONOXIDE? ...carbon monoxide is a very dangerous, colorless, odorless gas.... WHAT CARBON MONOXIDE DOES TO YOU Too much carbon monoxide in your blood will kill you. ...low-level exposure to this gas also endangers your health. ...given a choice between carbon monoxide and oxygen, the protein hemoglobin in our blood will always latch on to carbon monoxide and ignore the life-giving oxygen. Because of this natural chemical affinity, our bodies - in effect - replace oxygen with carbon monoxide in our bloodstream, causing greater or lesser levels of cell suffocation depending on the intensity and duration of exposure. The side-effects that can result from this low-level exposure include permanent organ and brain damage. Infants and the elderly are more susceptible than healthy adults, as are those with anemia or heart disease. ----------------------------------------------------------- from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Carbon Monoxide Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless gas that is nonflammable and nonexplosive until concentrations exceed 10%. It combines with hemoglobin to form carboxyhemoglobin and blocks the uptake of oxygen by erythrocytes, leading to fatal hypoxemia. In people, the most common symptoms of early CO toxicosis are headache, dizziness, and weakness. As concentrations of carboxyhemoglobin increase, these signs may be followed by decreased visual acuity, tinnitus, nausea, progressive depression, confusion, and collapse. Because CO stimulates motor centers in the brain, unconsciousness may be accompanied by convulsions and muscular spasms. Carbon monoxide is a cumulative poison. Distinct signs of CO toxicosis are not evident until the concentration is 0.05% in air, and acute signs do not develop until the concentration is approximately 0.2%. In human beings, exposure to 0.32% CO and 0.45% CO for one hour will induce unconsciousness and death, respectively.... In the past, mass euthanasia has been accomplished by using three methods for generating CO: (1) chemical interaction of sodium formate and sulfuric acid; (2) exhaust fumes from idling gasoline internal combustion engines; and (3) commercially compressed CO in cylinders. The first two techniques are associated with a number of problems, such as production of other gases, inadequate concentrations of carbon monoxide achieved, inadequate cooling of the gas, and maintenance of the equipment; therefore, the only recommended source is compressed CO in cylinders. Carbon monoxide induces unconsciousness without pain and with minimal discernible discomfort. Hypoxemia induced by CO is insidious, so that the animal appears to be unaware. (3) Death occurs rapidly if concentrations of 4-6% are used. Any electrical equipment exposed to CO (eg, lights and fans) must be explosion proof. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Shddemon@cris.com (SHADOWDEMON) Date: 19 Jun 1997 09:14:00 GMT 6 hours MIGHT be enough time; do you have a catyltic converter? What about fuel injection? Either one of those and you won't die that quickley, & will probably have a pretty painful throbbing headache. Basically, if your car passed the emissions test, you won't die. If you can't get to a hyperbaric chamber afterwords, you WILL recieve permanant brain damage (you might anyway, but probably not as much if you get treatment) ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: tagtraeumer Date: 3 Sep 1997 16:33:02 -0000 diobrando wrote: >Is it true that if you lock yourself in the garage >with the car engine turned on, sooner or later you >will die of carbon monixide poisoning? Depends on your car... best if you have an old junker. Buy a carbon monoxide detector (not a cheap one that can only beep) You need a handheld device with digital scale. Search for "co-detector" on http://www.altavista.com You must maintain a concentration of at least 0.5% (5000ppm) carbon monoxide in the air. The side effects of CO poisoning include headache and vomiting, so take some painkillers and travel sickness pills before. If you fail, you could end up brain damaged. ----------------------------------------------------- anonymous: ...newer cars have a much lower ratio and this makes death far less likely. I imagine one either has to get an older car or disable to the catalytic converter in some way. however, there are other kinds of motors which emit CO, such as those of lawn mowers, boat engines, blower engines and the like, and even the very low-burning fire (hibachi) may do the trick. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: ichi@earthling.net (Ichimusai) Date: Sat, 06 Sep 1997 13:25:26 GMT A neighbour a couple of houses just down the road killed himself about two weeks ago with the exact method. That was a quite new car (last years model) german Audi. So it did work. So what was wrong? Did he use old gas? Are Audi cars not keeping up with technology? ------------------------------------------------- anonymous: ...garden hoses may not be equipped to deliver a continuous supply from the exhaust pipe because they are not designed for very hot gases. I don't know if this is true. the recommendation was made that automotive stores may have specially-designed hoses to carry the CO outside while working in one's enclosed garage. if so, then this may prove to be a perfect solution to that. ...special heat- resistant tape may be important in securing the hose to the exhaust pipe, else it may melt off before death occurs. ---------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 6 Jul 1997 08:36:38 GMT Jason wrote: > Hi, on the night of July 3rd, I attempted to kill > myself by carbon monoxide poisoning. I skipped > work that day, and bought the garden hose, duct > tape, sleeping pills called "Unisom SleepGels", > and filled the gas tank to my crappy '81 Mazda 626. 1) Garden hose is too small diameter to be effective, and also will melt at high temperatures. 2) Duct tape also melts. 3) Unisom is barely effective as a sleep aid. Next time, stop in at your local auto supply store, ask for muffler mending tape and a 5' flexible hose for same. If they ask, tell them you work on your car in your garage and don't want CO poisoning :-) > I parked behind an abandoned building where a > grocery supermarket once was and popped 5 of > those pills. It said one would be good enough... > but i didn't start feeling drowsy until like 30-45 > mins later... FIVE? Just five pills isn't much of an attempt :-) And you forgot the requisite bottle of scotch, as found at all the best suicide scenes. >so I started up the engine and I guess I fell asleep. >I think about 10 mins later, I woke up because my >toes and my fingers started to tingle. This is a known side effect. Here's where the alcohol comes in -- if you've ever gotten even close to drunk, you know that booze makes your skin numb == no tingling. >The feeling bothered me (I was hoping to be passed >out so I wouldn't have to feel it in the first place) >so that frightened me and I turned the ignition off. >Yeah, I chickened out. Nothing to be ashamed of. > Good thing though....my brother is a diabetic. > So I'm gonna try Not very nice for your brother. > injecting the insulin into my system on Sunday night > so I could die in my sleep or supposedly when my > family believes I'm sleeping. Unfortunately my > brother won't have any in the morning to use for his > daily shots. If you have access to his needles, there's plenty else you can inject for a faster demise, and less guilt (or risk from lack of insulin) for the brother. > But anyways...my suggestion for CO poisoning...do > anything you can to get passed out so in case that > tingling feeling in your toes and fingers bother > you like it did to me...you won't be conscious to > feel it and then quit with the whole procedure. The methods file doesn't have much on CO right now, this would be a good addition. It's also been mentioned here that modern gasoline and catalytic converters don't send much CO out the tailpile these days. > I'm sure a lot of people are gonna poke fun at > this post...you can if you want...it's not going > to hurt my feelings :) --------------------------------------------------- from http://www.ps.ex.state.ut.us/sc/co.htm The Invisible Threat . . . Carbon Monoxide (CO) is an odorless, colorless and tasteless gas that can find its way into your home through a number of common sources: * Malfunctioning Furnace * Cars left running in a garage or other closed area * Grills, Hibachis and other fuel burning appliances * Fireplaces or clogged chimneys * Improperly installed gas ranges or vents Unlike smoke or heat from a fire, carbon monoxide is truly invisible-and extremely dangerous. ...high-quality Carbon Monoxide detector. ...Nighthawk detectors have been ranked #1 in quality, accuracy and low false alarm rates by a leading consumer magazine.... These models come equipped with the following user-friendly features: * Easy installation on any standard wall outlet * Loud 85-decibel alarm instantly alerts you when CO levels become dangerously high * Advanced long-life, state-of-the-art carbon monoxide sensor never needs replacement * No re-calibration needed * Full five-year warranty ...With an easy-to-read digital display, this model will instantly alert you to life-threatening levels in your home.... You can determine if you have a small problem, whether levels are increasing, or if you're in a life-threatening situation. This model also has a sophisticated memory feature (the only one on the market) that records the highest level of carbon monoxide present since the last time the unit was reset. This will help you gauge carbon monoxide levels when you're sleeping or away from home. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dot@interactive.no.spam.net (DL) Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 16:50:41 -0500 cfoote@nf.sympatico.ca (Craig Foote) wrote: > Modern cars burn gas more efficiently too, creating less > CO. I'm looking at a bbq in a small sealed room with a > regular dose of sleeping pills and a little alcohol. > Still looking for a qualified opinion though. If you ever > get an answer on good CO production, post it or email me > please.... You can produce CO by mixing limestone chips (from a garden supply store) with some kind of acid, but I forget the acid. Anyone have a chemistry textbook? ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.methods From: "The CrapHead!" Date: 12 Jan 98 15:23:34 -0100 Edward Beaty wrote: > Now, any chemists out there who know how to rig a CO > generator from household chemicals? The two easiest ways to make CO are: 1. Add formic acid to hot concentrated sulfuric acid. 2. Heat a mixture of calsiumcarbonate and zink. Method 1: The sulfuric acid removes H2O from the formic acid, leaving CO-gas. HCOOH -> H2O + CO To create one mole of CO-gas, you need 46g of formic acid (assuming complete reaction) and at least 100g of concentrated sulfuric acid. As the sulfuric acid is dilluted by the water created by the reaction, you need more than 100g of sulfuric acid, so the reaction doesn't stop. The formic acid and sulfuric acid should be concentrated to speed up the reaction. Method 2: The calsiumcarbonate reacts with the zink, giving calsiumoxide, zinkoxide and CO-gas. CaCO3 + Zn -> CaO + ZnO + CO To create one mole of CO-gas, you need 100g CaCO3 and 65.3g Zn (assuming complete reaction). The zink and calsiumcarbonate should be finely powdered and well mixed to speed up the reaction. One mole of gas fills up 22.4 cubic decimeters (=22.4 litres). You you should have a concentration of at least 1% CO in the air to kill yourself. It's probably a good idea to collect the CO in a bag. Just make sure you don't have too much leakage. --------------------------------------------------- B. ASPHYXIATION/SUFFOCATION 1. Constriction a. Leather Strap b. Rope c. Wire --------------------------------------------------- 2. Oxygen Displacement To: alt.suicide.holiday From: bill lippencott@omserver2.cv.hp.com (bill) Date: 23 Aug 1997 07:40:44 GMT says: >Olivia Chan wrote >>can someone tell me where to get a mask (for >>connection to nitrogen tank)? In California I lived near a medical supply store. They sold oxygen tanks and I suppose would include masks of different types. Want a free one? They look like a baseball cup with a few slight modifications. Even for the final act I'd get a new one... You could also cut a gallon plastic milk jug diagonally across the corner and tape your hose to it and around your head. ------------------------------------------------------ a. Ether from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Ether has high solubility in blood and induces anesthesia slowly, is irritating to the eyes and nose, and poses serious risks associated with its flammability. Ether is flammable and explosive and should not be used near an open flame or other ignition sources. Explosions have occurred when animals, euthanatized with ether, were placed in an ordinary (not explosion proof) refrigerator or freezer and when bagged animals were placed in an incinerator. To: alc.suicide,alt.suicide.finals,alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 7 Sep 1997 06:57:03 GMT Ivan Milles wrote: >"A12BF" wrote: >>I am pretty sure that If done correctly that this >>would be a very easy any Painless way to Go Out. >>I have done some experimenting with it and I Think >>that it will work quite well. All that is needed >>is a plastic bag the size of a tall kitchen trash >>bag or a little larger, A large Rubber Band ( one >>that is big enough to go over your head but still >>be fairly tight around your neck), and a can of >>engine starting fluid (Ether). How pure is the ether in "engine starting fluid"? I would not be suprised if it was adulterated to prevent 'huffing'. >>The Rubber Band is Placed around the openong of >>the plastic bag. With the band in place around >>the opening of the bag. Squrt a fairly large >>quantity of the ether into the bag. You might consider soaking the ether into a rag rather than just pouring it on to the bag. Also consider that ether is a powerful solvent- it'd be pretty shitty to wake up with a bad headache and a plastic bag permanently melted on to your face and hair. >> I would prefer to be lieing down dressed as I >>would like to be found. Then Simply slip the >>either filled bag over my head. I beleive that >>the either will put you to sleep rather quickly. >>And once I am asleep, I will suffocate probably >>without even feeling it.?? Comments Please.!! >Yes. > >For one thing, your way will not be painless. Says you. Ether was routinely used for anethesia until the LONG TERM dangers became known. If it can keep you from noticing that your leg is being sawn off, It should be just fine for keeping you from noticing that you are permanently out of oxygen. >First, the ether will corrode your nose walls, >eyes and lungs. >Second, you wont fall asleep before you suffocate. Why don't you grab a can of ether and some plastic bags, then report back to us? >Third, you wont suffocate. You will drown as your >auto-neuro-systems force your lungs to breathe >the ether. True. Perhaps he needs a bigger bag? >Fourth, yor body wont look too good. Bloated, >swollen, and with a horrible twisted grin on your face. Dead bodies seldom do 'look to good' (unless you are a necrophiliac?), the original author didn't ask if this was a method to prodoce a pretty corpse, he asked if it would be _effective_. ----------------------------------------------------- b. Nitrogen/Helium (inert gasses) To: alt.suicide.holiday From: puck31066@aol.com (Puck31066) Date: 26 Aug 1997 12:57:13 GMT >nospam@answerme.com (Mindless) wrote: >...I have a preferred method, inert gas, but I'm >not sure how I can get hold of a bottle of N2 >(liquid or gas). Any suggestions? Failing that >I may try He instead but I'm not sure how to >handle such a gas. Comments? also my preferred method. any welding supply store. get the 250 cu ft tank. -------------------------------------------------- from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: Nitrogen (N2) [is a] colorless, odorless [gas] that [is] inert, nonflammable, and nonexplosive. Nitrogen comprises 78% of atmospheric air.... Euthanasia is induced by placing the animal in a closed container into which N2 ...is rapidly introduced or prefilled at atmospheric pressure. Nitrogen... displaces oxygen in the container, thus inducing death by hypoxemia. With N2 flowing at a rate of 39% of chamber volume per minute, rats collapsed in approximately 3 minutes and stopped breathing in 5 to 6 minutes. Regardless of flow rate, signs of panic and distress were evident before the rats collapsed and died. ...Quine ...addressed the issue of distress associated with exposure to N2 by removing cats and dogs from the chamber following unconsciousness and allowing them to recover. When these animals were put back into the chamber, they did not appear afraid or apprehensive. Nitrogen [is] readily available as [a] compressed [gas]. Unconsciousness is preceded by hypoxemia and ventilatory stimulation, which may be distressing.... -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Randy Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:37:00 -0500 GHELL 666 wrote: > What exactly is the nitrogen tent method? ...you fill an enclosed space with nitrogen and just sit there. The Nitrogen displaces the CO2 in your lungs, preventing you from feeling what you feel when you hold your breath for a long time. You simply pass out, and die of asphyxiation while you're unconscious. I've heard it's rather pleasant. ----------------------------------------------------- From: anonymous Intro ----- Method : asphyxiation by inert gas (helium) Certainty : Fairly certain if not 'saved' and you don't chicken out Cost : about #100 (sterling) Obtaining the Helium -------------------- Pick up the yellow pages, look under 'P' for party supplies, ring up some party shops and ask how to obtain helium for filling balloons. Most shops will apologise and say "sorry we don't spply it, try the partysmells shop on such and such a road..." Ringing up is preferable to a personal visit for reasons a) If you are a nervous sort of person like me, then a phone is much better tham a personal call from a "nobody knows who I am" point of view. b) You will find that most party shops don't supply helium, so it's a good idea to ring around. When you find a shop that can supply the helium, they'll ask if you want, a) A cannister for about 20 balloons, b) A tank of gas for about 200 balloons Naturally we'll plump for b). The gas itself will cost about #45, and you must also place a deposit on the cylinder, the deposit will need to be cash (ie not switch card or credit card), and it'll probably be around #50. Fortunately, I'm well off, so money is not a problem here. Note that, the party shops will not usually have any helium to buy "off the shelf", and they may ask you to wait from 1->10 days for some to be delivered. If time is a constraint, then this could be a problem. The gas appears to be "balloon grade" and exceeds 99% purity. The remaining fraction is probably nitrogen, though I've no idea really. Caution : The gas tank is actually quite heavy (about the same as 2 or 3 car batteries), so if you are in any way disabled, you may have trouble with it. _Neighbour : "so what on earth do you want this for..." _You : "Oh, it's for me to gas myself with, would you mind just helping me get it up the stairs please..." Making a Gas mask ----------------- Your first stop should be a trip to the local 'auto spares' shop, or 'Boots', where you can get syphoning tube, or any other suitable flexible tubing. I would recommend a longer piece rather than a shorter one for reasons a) The gas is quite cold when it comes out of the tank, and a long tube will give it a chance to warm up by a couple of degrees. b) If you use a very long tube, there's a slight chance you may get tangled up in it, and accidently trip over and choke yourself do death on it. c) You can always make a long piece shorter if you're not happy with it. about 3 metres should be plenty, and will cost under #1 per metre. Next stop - The supermarket. Buy a tub of "I can't beleive it's not butter". Not the very small tubs, but the next size up. If you remember when you were a kid, you stick a glass over your mouth, and suck, and the glass sticks. We will use the same principle with the butter tub. Hence you want to get one which will fit under your chin, over your mouth and up to the bridge of your nose. Any container of about this size will do, however I would recommend the use of "I can't beleive it's not butter", "Utterly Butterly", or "Clover", as they come in quite strong plastic tubs, unlike "Flora" or "Happy shopper own brand margi-muck", which have thin plastic, which will probably crack or split when being cut. Treat yourself to a slap-up meal of toast and butter, and then give the butter-tub a good cleaning, unless you are a girl, in which case you probably like having oily slimy stuff all over your face, (contains active lipobuttersomes - in scientific tests 8 out of 10 phlegm weevils got younger when they used it - etc etc). NB : I don't want anyone else to use an "I can't beleive it's not butter" tub, as I want to be the first person to kill myself using one. That would be an achievment worthy of some praise. Fit the tub over your mouth, you'll find that your nose gets in the way, and prevents an air-tight fit. Use a sharp knife (e.g. stanley knife), to cut a small indentation where your nose goes. Make lots of small cuts, rather than one big one, because you're less likely to make a serious bodge. When the tub fits snugly over your mouth, you should be able to hold it there by sucking in. It doesn't matter if it isn't a perfect air-tight fit, because the helium gas will fill the mask easily, and as long as the %Oxygen is kept low, then a little air getting in won't matter. If the helium pressure is sufficiently strong, it'll force out any air anyway. Next - get some long elastic bands. Find a sharp object about the size and shape of a knitting needle, and puncture a hole in the sides of the tub on each side, about in line with where your ears are. I found that heating a knitting needle and punching a small hole made a clean edge. Chain two or three long elastic bands together, and push one end through the hole. Once it's through, pull enough through the hole to let you tie a large knot in the elastic band, and then pull the band back through. The elastic band should now be held firmly to the tub. Repeat this procedure on the other side. And you can now place the tub over your mouth, and put the elastic bands around the head. Adjust the tightness (by tieing knots in the elastic band, or pulling more throuth the tub holes), so that it fits snugly and comfortably. If you've got the placement just right, the elastic bands can be placed around the ears, and the mask will hold in place very comfortably and easily and will not fall off. Next - Take the tubing, and note how wide it is. On the front of the mask, about in line with the nose or mouth, using the sharp knife, make two incisions about the same diameter as the tubing. Don't cut a hole, just make a cross shaped cut. Now push the tubing through from the inside of the mask, and the cut pieces of plastic will open out and form a flange around the tubing. Pull the tubing through until a small piece is left protruding into the mask, (not too far). Now tape the flanges of plastic to the tubing, and liberally wind more tape around the join until the tubing is firmly held and the seal is air-tight. Next - Tape the free end of the tube to the gas outlet of the helium tank. This may be a problem : because the gas tanks that are supplied for filling balloons, have an unusual outlet. It consists of a spring loaded nozzle, which when bent, opens a valve to allow the gas out. Imagine holding a balloon onto a nozzle and then twisting your wrist upwards, this forces a plunger backwards and releases gas into the balloon, the gas comes out rather quickly, filling the balloon in a matter of seconds. When the nozzle is released, the spring forces the nozzle back to the horizontal position, and the metal plunger slides back against a stop, cutting off the gas flow. There is a master valve on the top of the cylinder too, but it doesn't allow for much flow regulation. This odd nozzle arrangement can act for and against us. I ought to point out, that I have managed to get (through work), a proper gas regulator valve, so I've replaced the one on my cylinder, but I did some experimentation with the spring loaded nozzle version first. If you tape the tubing to the nozzle, and then connect some more elastic bands between the nozzle end and a sturdy object (like the cylinder handle), you can make a nice "dead mans handle" - ie, when you let go of the nozzle, the elastic band pulls the nozzle upwards, and releases gas. This means that you can hold the nozzle in a position which just lets enough gas out, into the mask, and causes you to lose conciousness, when you pass out, your hand will release the nozzle, and the elastic band will open it up even more, thus increasing the gas flow, and ensuring that you don't get any air. Experimentation has shown this to be quite a good little system. NB : don't be tempted to remove the nozzle, and then open the master valve, the gas comes out at a tremendous speed, and will make the most amazing noise, and make you jump right out of your skin (it will also blow any paperwork on your desk/floor etc all around the room). Only open the master valve, when you have a suitable regulator or nozzle in place (hey! you might get yourself killed). The hard bit - Gassing yourself. -------------------------------- The fact that I'm writing this, is evidence enough that I'm a chicken and haven't succeeded in killing myself yet. I've no particular reason to die, just bored with life, so there is no urgency on my part, and one day I'll go through with it. However I can tell you what you will feel using the inert gas method, and I can reassure you that it is not painful. The 'Bag over the head' method causes the build up of CO2 and the body reacts with gasping, rapid pulse, and general panic (I've tried it), the inert gas method, simply replaces the air with an inert atmosphere, denuded of oxygen, and the body has no 'learned' response to this. Once you have the mask in place and the gas flowing (I'd advise tunring the gas on first, arranging your valve regulation, and then putting on the mask, because the first gush of gas, can be a bit violent, and might feel unpleasant), all you have to do is breathe normally. When you breathe the gas in pure, you'll notice that it is a) quite cold, but not too unpleasant (long tube may help) b) essentially odourless, though it smells different from room air. c) makes your voice squeaky, try singing as you die. After maybe three long slow breaths, you may notice a slight increase in your heart rate. I can only speculate about this a) caused by the body saying "more oxygen please" b) anxiety - after all you are trying to kill yourself c) some trace material in the gas (unlikely) d) insert better reason here I found that the momentary racing heart, passed quickly, and I conclude that it was caused by anxiety (on successive experiments, I've found the effect to be less pronounced). After about thirty seconds you will start to feel pressure in your head. Not really, but if you have stood up quickly, and feel dizzy, you'll know that there's a stange feeling 'inside' your head. This has been explained to me by a colleague, as probably being caused by the blood vessels in the head expanding to increase the blood flow and try to keep oxygen levels up. After a few more seconds, you'll start to feel yourself black out. I was unable to verify exactly what you 'see' because my gas mask, comes just up to my eyes, so I keep them shut, whilst doing this. However on previous experiments, just breathing directly from the tube, I've found that your vision starts to go black around the edges, and is entirely consistent with symptoms caused by low oxygen. At this point on all attempts, I have removed the mask, and prayed that an aircraft would crash land on my house and spare me having to do this any more. Conclusions ----------- Keeping the mask on for a few more seconds, would almost certainly have resulted in blackout, having the gas mask in place, would have meant a continued period without oxygen, and eventual death, under these circumstances - within a few minutes. The entire process seems to be essentially painless. You will feel yourself blacking out, and this causes me some panic, and hence that abortion of the operation, but I beleive persons with a stronger will should have no difficulty in carrying the plan through to terminus. (The person who initially suggested the use of helium to me, has not contacted me for some time, and since I have only an email address, I cannot ascertain why, but is quite possibly dead from this method). Side effects : To date I have nearly succeeded on several attempts, and have suffered no (known) long term effects. Since people can black out, from standing up too quickly : The air force G-Test pilots by whirling them around in centrifuges, and drawing the blood away from the head until blackout : and blackouts can be caused by numerous other means, I beleive that if oxygen is restored quickly, then the 'aborted operation' should be fairly safe. Pros of the method : It appears to be painless, and can be carried out in the comfort of your own home, at your own pace, allowing the opportunity to get comfortable, have a last drink, put your favourite record on etc etc. Definitely a nice way to go. Cons of the method : If you jump off a tall building, then you just need to make that decision once. Once your feet have left the ledge, you're history, and there's no turning back (assuming a good landing anyway). With the gassing method, you have about a minute to sit there trying to convince yourself that you want to live really, and it's very hard to quiet those demons. I would dearly love to get my hands on some nitrous oxide, as this would have an anaesthetizing effect, whilst acheiving the asphyxiation. --------------------------------------------------------- c. Carbon Dioxide (CO2) from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm At concentrations of 30% to 40% CO2 in oxygen, anesthesia was induced within 1 to 2 minutes, usually without struggling, retching, or vomiting. ...In cats, inhalation of 60% CO2 results in loss of consciousness within 45 seconds, and respiratory arrest within 5 minutes. Several investigators have suggested that inhalation of high concentrations of CO2 may be distressing to animals because of mucosal irritation and ventilatory stimulation. However, the degree of distress appears to be mild, and it is unlikely that it is any more than inhalation of volatile anesthetics.... Carbon dioxide is used for preslaughter anesthesia of swine. The undesirable side effect of CO2, as used in commercial slaughterhouses, is that swine experience a stage of excitement with vocalization for about 40 seconds before they lose consciousness. For that reason, CO2 preslaughter anesthesia may appear less humane than other techniques. Carbon dioxide may be purchased ...in solid state as "dry ice." ...is inexpensive, nonflammable, and nonexplosive.... ... does not result in accumulation of tissue residues in food producing animals. ...does not distort cellular architecture. Because CO2 is heavier than air, incomplete filling of a chamber may permit tall or climbing animals to avoid exposure and to survive. This appears to be very distressful to the animals. Some species may have extraordinary tolerance for CO2. Compressed CO2 gas in cylinders is preferable to dry ice because the inflow to the chamber can be regulated precisely. If dry ice is used, animal contact must be avoided to prevent freezing or chilling. Carbon dioxide generated by other methods such as from a fire extinguisher or from chemical means (eg, Alka-Seltzer) are unacceptable. With an animal in the chamber, an optimal flow rate should displace at least 20% of the chamber volume per minute. Unconsciousness may be induced more rapidly by exposing animals to a CO2 concentration of 70% or more by prefilling the chamber. It is important to verify that an animal is dead before removing it from the chamber. If an animal is not dead, CO2 narcosis must be followed with another method of euthanasia. Larger animals, such as rabbits, cats, and swine, appear to be more distressed by CO2 euthanasia; therefore, other methods of euthanasia are preferable. ------------------------------------------------------------ d. Nitrous Oxide (N2O) from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: Nitrous oxide (N2O) may be used with the other inhalants to speed the onset of anesthesia, but it alone does not induce anesthesia in animals, even at 100% concentration. If N2O is used as a sole euthanasia agent, hypoxemia develops before respiratory or cardiac arrest, and animals may become distressed prior to unconsciousness. Nitrous oxide will support combustion. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Randy Meador hotmail.com"> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 14:44:05 -0500 >...i would like to go to pure nitrous oxide (dentist >stuff/laughing gas)....where can a tank be obtained? >legally or not. It's legal, but most companies will not sell tanks of it to a residential address unless there is a _damn_ good excuse given. You can get compressed gasses (CO2 and N2) at the URL at the bottom, and can make arrangements with the same company to have them filled with just about anything under the sun (including nitrous). Incidentally, you can also order the Nitrous chargers (box's of 24) at the same place. Probably a lot cheaper than buying them at a head shop, or speciality cooking store. -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: _nospam_faithless_nospam_@psu.edu (Faithless One) [uncited] -I don't know about a tank, but I've thought about just -getting a bunch of 'whippets', filling a plastic trash -bag with them, and sealing my head inside the bag. -'Whippets' are available here at 'head shops' for about -$52 for 5 boxes, 24 in each box. Each Whippet is about -one lungful, so I think 5 boxes would fill a trash bag. ------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: nathan.s@ix.netcom.com Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 02:35:23 +0000 Powdered TOAST Man wrote: > David Richards's sexy evil twin sister reckons: >> Hang out with drag racers (as in fast cars) for a >> little while and you can learn all you'd ever >> want to know about Nitrous. Summit Auto sells >> $$$ kits with a filled 10Lb bottle by mail order >> (extra $10 UPS hazardous material fee) and with >> a little hunting you might find a mail order >> outfit that will ship just the filled bottle >> without the associated kit. > > I reccomend you all read some of the rec.drugs > info on N20, the stuff they use in cars is > "auto grade" while whippets and the stuff from > the dentist are "medical/food grade", apparently > the auto stuff has a fair but of sulpher > "rotten egg" gas in it, so it'll probably just > make you sick. > >> Whippets would require a _lot_ of money and a >> _lot_ of effort to accumulate any quantity of >> the gas. If you're an adult it's not that hard >> to get full tanks of compressed inert gas. > > Disagree here, a pack of whippets is like only > $5, and provides at least enough for "an evenings > entertainment". Nitrous Oxide is also used by taxidermists when preparing an animal. Some taxidermist shops will fill a tank for you. One near my old house would do it for about $3 a pound. ------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Randy Date: Sun, 14 Sep 1997 12:37:00 -0500 GHELL 666 wrote: > What exactly is the nitrogen tent method? ...you fill an enclosed space with nitrogen and just sit there. The Nitrogen displaces the CO2 in your lungs, preventing you from feeling what you feel when you hold your breath for a long time. You simply pass out, and die of asphyxiation while you're unconscious. I've heard it's rather pleasant. Ideally, you should use N20 (Nitrous Oxide) to act as an anesthetic. If you've ever done "whippits", you'll know what I'm talking about. This has been hashed over before, but try to locate surgical grade nitrous... The stuff used in Automobiles isn't required to pass quality standards for use in humans. N20 can be purchased in large canisters (by the lb) from welding supply stores and compressed air manufacturers. (like ISI) http://www.isi.co.at/main_e.htm While there is nothing illegal about N20, the places that sell it know what it can be used for (other than suicide, it can be inhaled for a 30 second high.) and hesitate to sell it to residential areas. Unless there is a good story involved, that is. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Randy Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 18:52:34 -0500 the Chemist wrote re whippets: > I'm pretty sure that there's CO2 in those bottles And I'm pretty sure that you're wrong. I'm sorry, but the "chargers" used to fill whipped cream canisters are filled with Nitrous Oxide. Now, the little canisters that work with your air rifle are filled with CO2; they look alike, but they are filled with different gases. Try inhaling the contents of a whipped cream charger sometime and report back to us; if it gives you a minute high, than it's N2O, if not, it's CO2. I can tell you right now, though, if you bought it at a cooking supply store, for whipping cream utensils, it's filled with Nitrous. Oh, and BTW- don't inhale the gas directly from the chargers; it's compressed, and when it comes out it's *very* cold. We're talking hypothermia/freeze a lip off cold. ----------------------------------------------------- e. Water/Drowning (H2O) To: alt.suicide.holiday From: anonymous Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:38:56 -0400 Ichimusai wrote: > 110331.1116@compuserve.com (Darlene) told us: > >>...could a person drink themselves to death with water >>or would they throw up first? And if it is possible >>to die this way, is it painful? And how long would >>it take? Thanks. > > Yes, it can actually happen. I have seen a notice > in a swedish paper about this happening once. I also > think Calle wrote about it in the old methods file. > > What happens is that you upset the osmotic balance > in your system, and your cells in the body will > cease to work, or work a lot less efficiently. > > I do not remember how much water you have to drink, > and during what period of time, but I am sure it is > a considerable amount. > > I would not recommend it though. What you are describing is called psychogenic polydipsia which is xs water drinking. The chemical change in your blood is a dilutional state with a low sodium level (hyponatremia). In order to lower your sodium levels critically you must make a massve effort and a poor kidney response. The sodium gradient between the brain and blood is such that seizures and confusion occurs. Permanent brain damage may follow if you don't die. I feel the risk of suffering after/during the attempt is not worth it unless you are masochistic and wish to suffer maximally to reflect your miserable existence. ------------------------------------------------ C. DAMAGE from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: Physical methods of euthanasia include captive bolt, gunshot, cervical dislocation, decapitation, electrocution, ...exsanguination, stunning, or pithing. However, some of these procedures, namely exsanguination, stunning, and pithing, are not recommended as a sole means of euthanasia, but are adjuncts when used in association with other agents or methods. Some consider physical methods of euthanasia aesthetically displeasing. However, some of these methods cause less fear and anxiety, and may be more rapid, painless, humane, and practical than other forms of euthanasia when properly used by skilled personnel with well-maintained equipment. If the method is not accomplished correctly, animals may be injured and may have varying degrees of consciousness, resulting in pain and distress. In general, physical methods are recommended for use only after other acceptable means have been excluded; in sedated or unconscious animals when practical; and when scientifically or clinically justified. Consequently, the panel considers all physical methods, except microwave irradiation, conditionally acceptable. ----------------------------------------------------------- 1. Decapitation from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm: ...Decapitation is a technique that may induce rapid unconsciousness. ...It is rapidly accomplished. The handling and restraint required to perform this technique may be distressful.... Data suggest that electrical activity in the brain persists for 13-14 seconds following decapitation. ...Decapitation may be aesthetically displeasing to personnel performing or observing the technique. ---------------------------------------------------- a. Guillotine ----------------------------------------------------- b. Hanging To: alt.suicide.holiday From: jomac@earthlink.net (jomac) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 12:24:44 GMT methods@nolle.make.the.spam.go.bounce wrote: >JJ wrote: >>bill wrote: >>> DaKo <*******@******.ac.uk> says: >>> > >>> >Does anybody here know for sure how long it >>> >would take using traditional hanging to >>> >reach unconciouness? (through asphyxiation). > > Check the alt.sex.* bondage groups (as a lurker). > Since some of them are into the near-death > asphyxiation/sex thing, they'd have tested the > limits more than ashers would have. > >>> The knot should be at the back of your head, >>> not the side. You can probably do more damage >>> to the brain stem that way. It controls stuff >>> like breathing. >> >>I thought it was more effective if the knot was >>at the side. That the neck would break more >>easily. > > The knot at the side is more effective when you're > out to snap your neck. If you're going for > strangulation instead of breaking the spinal cord, > I'm not sure it matters as much. If you're just > leaning into the noose, having it at the back may > make it easier to apply even pressure to the > windpipe and veins. Being at the back (for > gentle strangulation -- if there is such a thing), > wouldn't really cause more physical brain > stem damage. Depending on the knot you use, you > might actually have the least pressure at the knot > point. > > Spinal damage is the main issue in snappings > (long falls). Cutting off the oxygen supply to > the brain is the main issue in strangulations. > > I don't know if taking sedatives or muscle > relaxants significantly cut down on the time to > death for strangulations, but it might cut down > on the thrashing. Actually, what the British master hangmen did (after the long-drop method was adopted) was to place the knot at the corner of the jaw oriented so that as it tightened, it would travel under the the jaw, throwing the head back. They also used a rope with a massive metal ring to aid in throwing back the head. The American's used the hangman's knot to do the same thing: it was a heavy bulky knot which helped throw the condemned's head back. Additionally, it was a high friction knot, so the hangman could tighten it and go about the remainder of his business without worrying about the noose loostening and coming off. This knot is NOT good for effective strangulation precisely for that reason. If the neck is not broken, the hangman's knot can actually prolong strangulation because it does not tighten very effectively. Ending up with the knot behind the head throws the head forward and virtually guarantees the spine will not be broken unless the drop used is extremely long. The knot to the side is a little better. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: anonymous Date: Thu, 11 Sep 1997 19:56:16 -0400 I found this bit I hope it helps: A Guide To Hanging Yourself 14 stone (196 lbs.) 8 ft. 0 in. 13 1/2 stone (189 lbs.) 8 ft. 2 in. 13 stone (182 lbs.) 8 ft. 4 in. 12 1/2 stone (175 lbs.) 8 ft. 6 in. 12 stone (168 lbs.) 8 ft. 8 in. 11 1/2 stone (161 lbs.) 8 ft. 10 in. 11 stone (154 lbs.) 9 ft. 0 in. 10 1/2 stone (147 lbs.) 9 ft. 2 in. 10 stone (140 lbs.) 9 ft. 4 in. 9 1/2 stone (133 lbs.) 9 ft. 6 in. 9 stone (126 lbs.) 9 ft. 8 in. 8 1/2 stone (119 lbs.) 9 ft. 10 in. 8 stone (112 lbs.) 10 ft. 0 in. The above table shows weight and reccommended drop This is actually a quite important list. Why not give everyone a ten foot drop? Turns out that with too much of a drop, if you're too heavy, you decapitate yourself, which is both quite messy, and doesn't give the right impression. After all, you want to be found hanging there, with your suicide note neatly pinned to your chest, or perhaps tastefully left on the table beside you, and not with your body in one place and your head in another, with a few shards of flesh hanging from the rope. Also remember that this was for heavy hanging rope, and that thinner rope might not survive the snap at the end of the drop. In other words, to do yourself in with your belt, or zipcord, you will have to strangle yourself, and not break your neck. Another popular way to kill oneself is with impalement. In the past, falling on one's sword was a means of doing this, but these days, a good sword is so hard to find, so this method has fallen out of fashion. One of my grandmother's roomers did manage to do himself in this way, by sitting on an upright vacuum cleaner, and falling backwards on to it, but it was never settled as to whether or not this was an intentional suicide, or simply a very messy accident during a dangerous sexual practice. And do, please, let people know. This fellow was not found for three days, and it was quite difficult to get the smell and stains out so that the room could be let again. ------------------------------------------------------- anonymous: it's possible to "hang" with both your feet touching the ground. all that's necessary is pressure on the neck, cutting off the blood supply to the brain. you lose consciousness after about 10 seconds. this is _strangulation_, not suffocation. there are other ways to die by hanging, namely (1) fracture of the spine and (2) decapitation, but they're rare in suicide. ------------------------------------------------------ 2. Cervical Dislocation (Neck Dislocation/Breakage) from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Cervical Dislocation (as hanging snapping neck) Cervical dislocation is a technique that may induce rapid unconsciousness. ...It is rapidly accomplished. ...Data suggest that electrical activity in the brain persists for 13 seconds following cervical dislocation. ------------------------------------------------------ 4. Cervical Dislocation (Neck Dislocation/Break) 5. Hypothermia a. Snow b. Water ------------------------------------------------------ 6. Immolation To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Smithers Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:37:13 +1100 Self-immolation. Yup, that good ol' buddhist thingo they did to protest the Vietnam war. Haha... fat lot of good that did. But hey, get really loaded with, say, drambuie or similar liqueur style booze (easier on the burn), take some body numbing painkiller (difficult to procure, I admit - could be a stumbling block), a jerrycan of petrol and head to your local TV station, shopping centre, representative's office, kindergarten or wotever. Douse yourself with the juice, light up and PRESTO! Imminent death, plus making a statement (something obscure like, say, the situation in East Timor). Just make sure there's no do-gooders with fire extinguishers hanging around. But always ensure the Press are there. Preferably on a sunday, typically a slow news day. They'll love you for it. ------------------------------------------------------ 7. Exsanguination from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Exsanguination can be used to ensure death subsequent to stunning, electrical stunning, or in otherwise unconscious animals. ...anxiety is associated with extreme hypovolemia.... a. Wrists To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "ZeroDegree@Cold.com" Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:27:38 -0000 bend your wrist towards you, see where the crease is? Go for there, one diagnal cut, as deep as you can make it, try a razor. Running a hot bath will increase blood flow to the area and bring the blood vessels/arteries closer to the skin makig them easier to cut.... --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "LIAM D YOUENS" Date: 15 Dec 1997 10:56:04 GMT The best way to do it is this: -get a very large bowl, full of ice water... lots of ice -put your arm in it for an hour( hurts at first ) -get a razor or sharp knife, exactor knife good -cut along the wrist where it meets the hand -then cut 45 degrees down across your wrist -then down center along your arm until it starts to hurt note: when I tried this, right before I cut..I dropped the knife and vomited ----------------------------------------------------------- b. Major Arteries/Veins To: alt.suicide.holiday From: Herry Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 03:59:38 +1100 ...if you wanna bleed to death there are are 2 routes to go. Inside each thigh. There are arteries there an inch thick - blood loss to death within minutes. If yer serious and you have the guts... One stab and splurt you won't believe. And no stopping it. Just my advice. Hardcore, but a quick, way to go. Read up yer med texts. ----------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: al255@yfn.ysu.edu (Lance Rodberg) Date: 20 Dec 1997 04:57:02 GMT Best target is the armpits or femoral arteries get a hollow tube with some sort of cutting edge on the surface. You can jam it into something major, and then bleed out real fucking good. Femoral is the best. Hard to get to, unless you have like a shotgun with slugs, or a sharp surface, but a Gray's anatomy book will help yer asses out.... ------------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: tagtraeumer Date: 26 Dec 1997 16:35:19 -0000 TimmyGato wrote: >Forget the wrists. Go for the artery around the blood >donating vein on the inside right of the left elbow or >inside left of right elbow. Have a few drinks (eases >pain and yuck factor), tie a rubber band or a hair >thingy tightly around your upper arm, take a razor >blade and just nick about 1/4-1/2 inch deep. I sort >of accidentally discovered this while cutting. Didn't >take long for one cup, two cups of blood to literally >pour out. I did this a few times. I tried the elbow thing about 8 years ago, stabbed with a knife rather deeply at the inside of my elbow, where the pulse beat is strongest and actually visible, and did believe to be able to slash the artery and bleed to death. Probably i missed the artery completely, but damaged my elbow joint, it hurts until now. And i didn't lose much blood as well. ------------------------------------------------------- 8. Weapons a. Explosives b. Guns AVMA: Gunshot ...[Gunshot]... should be performed by highly skilled personnel using a firearm appropriate for the situation. ...the firearm should be aimed so that the projectile enters the brain, causing instant unconsciousness. Unconsciousness is instantaneous if the projectile destroys most of the brain. It is aesthetically unpleasant. --------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 15 Aug 1997 14:52:49 GMT gt wrote: >where is the best place to aim to cause certain death? >I have heard just below the chin or in the mouth with >gun on an angle pointing to brain or the side of >the head... The intuitive answer is go for the eye socket, but just the thought is enough to make most people squirm... Any bullet "on an angle" or "the side of the head" is more likely than not to bounce off... >what kind of bullet is best? A big, heavy, fast one? Stay away from 22 rimfire, the only .22 that has any chance of effectiveness is a .223... but IMHO, if you want to save money and insure "certain death", find a good (used) double barreled 10 gauge... Great if you only have to handle the recoil once and don't have to worry about having a big black and yellow bruise across your shoulder for the next week (voice of experience on that one). Remember the rules (http://www.nra.org/rstar/rstargsr.html): Three Fundamental Rules For Safe Gun Handling 1. Always keep the gun pointed in a safe direction. 2. Always keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. 3. Always keep the gun unloaded until ready to use. When Using Or Storing A Gun, Always Follow These NRA Rules: Know your target and what is beyond. Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second. Be sure the gun is safe to operate. Just like other tools, guns need regular maintenance to remain operable. Regular cleaning and proper storage are a part of the gun's general upkeep. If there is any question concerning a gun's ability to function, a knowledgeable gunsmith should look at it. Know how to use the gun safely. Before handling a gun, learn how it operates. Know its basic parts, how to safely open and close the action and remove any ammunition from the gun or magazine. Remember, a gun's mechanical safety device is never foolproof. Nothing can ever replace safe gun handling. Use only the correct ammunition for your gun. Only BBs, pellets, cartridges or shells designed for a particular gun can be fired safely in that gun. Most guns have the ammunition type stamped on the barrel. Ammunition can be identified by information printed on the box and sometimes stamped on the cartridge. Do not shoot the gun unless you know you have the proper ammunition. Wear eye and ear protection as appropriate. Guns are loud and the noise can cause hearing damage. They can also emit debris and hot gas that could cause eye injury. For these reasons, shooting glasses and hearing protectors should be worn by shooters and spectators. Never use alcohol or drugs before or while shooting. Alcohol, as well as any other substance likely to impair normal mental or physical bodily functions, must not be used before or while handling or shooting guns. Be aware that certain types of guns and many shooting activities require additional safety precautions. -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: dr@ripco.com (David Richards) Date: 9 Sep 1997 02:43:01 GMT The only way to position a _handgun_ to ensure death is to point it directly at a large group of police officers, preferably of a different skin color than yours. Otherwise, trade it in on a single or double barrel 12Ga shotgun, and spend the extra cash you get from the trade to buy a box of double ought buckshot shells and a cheap hacksaw. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: anonymous Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 07:50:08 -0400 The target is your brainstem and not your brain necessarily. Why? Because one can survive loss of cerebral cortex but usually with a deficit like a stroke. One can not survive loss of the brainstem which controls breathing, waking and cardiac function. The good news is that enough bleeding in the skull (as long as it remains enclosed) will compress the brain stem and squeeze it out at the bottom (uncal herniation) and this will kill you (brain death). Enough swelling in the brain (cerebral edema) will have the same effect (death). The latter 2 processes (bleeding and swelling) take time and are potentially reversible. The first process namely destruction of the brain stem is hopeless or successfull depending upon your perspective. Now it becomes a simple matter of neuroanatomy to select your spot and weapon. I will also base this on being a bad shot as well. If you can not control the weapon or pull away or something a grazing injury or worse is possible. This is often seen when the gun is placed in the mouth. Shotgun or not (and I believe bullets exist which perform like a shotgun shell), if you angle too high into the roof of your mouth you can blast through your sinuses and eyes or frontal lobe and survive but virtually destroying your face, vision or affect respectively. This is a horrid survival and not uncommon. Now if you aim too low, perhaps deep throating the barrel you will likely miss the brain altogether and if in the midline transect your spinal cord (which could be fatal without intervention) or if to the side various airway soft tissue damage. To sucessfully use your mouth as the entrance wound you must aim up toward the brainstem and hopefully blow the back of your skull off. This would be 100%. Once again given enough time and inattention any of these wounds would be fatal from bleeding, swelling, compression or subsequent infection. I vote no for the mouth myself. The classic temple shot, that is in the mid-skull at eye level is stupid. The most damaging brain structures you will hit are the frontal lobes. This is tantamount to a frontal lobotomy, but once again given enough time... I have heard of shots missing the brain altogether and taking out both eyes as well. I vote no for the temple. How about right in the middle of your forehead to between your eyes. This is better if you can hit the midline stuctures such as the midbrain and brain stem. I recalled a homeless person firing a nail gun in between his eyes with not effect. The nail missed everything and lodged in the middle of the brain, so midline brain could be ineffective. I vote probable no here too. So where? My first choice is behind or directly into one ear aiming across to the other. With a sure hand the vital brainstem will shread. You would not even hear the shot or have time to feel a thing. Likewise the barrel directed into either eye socket and aimed down will accomplish the task. The neuroanatomical idea is that these sites follow the respective cranial nerves (optic, auditory) into vital midline structures. I vote yes for this approach. You can ofcourse miss or pull away or just be lucky or unlucky once again depending on your perspective. A hand grenade in the mouth would be infalllible. One might also consider exploding bullets, etc (I profess a meager knowledge of guns and ammo.) -------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: s3036712@mpce.mq.edu.au (Powdered TOAST Man) Date: 25 Sep 1997 04:21:55 GMT For a shotgun, basically anywhere near your head should do the trick. I'd suggest in your open mouth, aiming to go out the top of your head. We've all heard the stories of dudes with revolvers shooting into their mouths and ending up piercing their neck, with comparitively little damage. For a shotgun, I'd suggest placing the "butt" of it on the ground, against a wall, then sit/kneel in front of it with the barrel in your mouth. This last part should avoid it kicking and you not "finishing the job". After the job's done, you'll be left with half a head (at best), and a LOT of mess around. A lot of people don't want this, so be warned. Your body will tend to fall backward rather than foward (because of the wall). ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: caj@urth.autarch.com (Craig A. Johnston) Date: 22 Dec 1997 15:46:56 -0600 You can generally find a youth model 12 gauge shotgun at your local sporting goods store for around $80. I saw one for $71. You only need to be 18. There is no waiting period. Buy 00 ("double-aught") buckshot shells for it and you're ready. You might want to securely duct-tape it to your head so it's in your mouth and there is no possibility of simply blowing part of your face off. I can't think of much that's more certain short of using a grenade for a pillow. You won't even hear the blast. If your arms are short, use your toe for the trigger. --------------------------------------------------- To: alt.satanism From: Kerry Delf Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 00:15:33 -0800 [explanations for why you want a gun] 1. I enjoy shooting -- I've even recently begun shooting competitively, and it has been a wonderfully challenging experience, in addition to being a fun social time with other friendly, intelligent shooters. 2. I appreciate the aesthetic merits of firearms. Some are enjoyable as well-made machines; some are simply beautiful (take a look at the SVD Dragunov sniper for an example -- a friend of mine has one, and it's a gun to drool over). 3. I am a 5'6", 120 lb. woman who is often out alone at night (avoided when possible, but it's still fairly frequent), in an area where (stranger) rapes and attempted or completed sexual (and other) assaults are too frequent for comfort -- in what is not a "bad area," even. I have taken courses in unarmed self-defense, but my stopping power is MUCH more effective when I am in possession of a firearm. I *am* safer when armed, though if I were caught unarmed by an assailant (for example, after leaving a federal building, in which I cannot legally carry a firearm), I know enough unarmed defense to have perhaps a fighting chance to get away (though not /nearly/ as much of a chance as I would have if armed, and with a much higher likelihood of being injured in the process). ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: caj@urth.autarch.com (Craig A. Johnston) Date: 26 Dec 1997 19:47:37 -0600 Ok -- any mechanical engineers or gunsmiths in the house? A shotgun, stripped of the need to fire multiple rounds, of the need for accuracy, comfort, or anything else besides launching a handful of 00 buckshot at the base of your skull once, is an incredibly simple thing -- really just a pipe of sufficient strength and the right size and a firing mechanism, which need only strike the center of the shell one time with a modicum of force. Imagine: the 12-gauge, single shot, single use zip gun. Constructed from $20 worth of hardware that requires no ID to buy, you need only supply the shotgun shell. (which sadly, will require ID in the US, but only showing you are over 18, and with no waiting period applicable.) Wondering how cheap and simple-to-make such a thing could be... maybe I will pursue this idea. Hrm, preliminary idea -- A pipe of just the right size so that, as in the barrel of a gun, the plastic part of the shell will fit inside the pipe, but the metal lip on the shell prevents the shell from falling into the barrel, has a shell so affixed to it (and epoxied into place so it cannot fall out of the barrel, either) with a BB taped to the place the firing pin would strike on the metal end of the shell, and is placed inside another pipe just large enough so that the first pipe can freely move through the larger pipe. Now, the end of the large pipe can be held in one's mouth as one kneels on the floor over the device, and the small pipe is allowed to drop through the large pipe so that the shell with the BB taped to the firing point strikes the hard concrete floor while the other end of the small pipe is still inside the larger pipe. Doable? Ascii art attempt, if this is not clear. | | | | <--- inner pipe | | | | ||---|| || || || || <--- shell inside inner pipe ||___|| || || || || ---o--- <-- there's the lip if the metal part of the shell. ^--- there's the BB, taped to the point the firing pin would strike. Drop this through a larger pipe so the BB hits the ground while the small pipe is still partially in the large pipe, with your mouth around the top of the big pipe. Ideally one would just buy a shotgun, but not everyone is so fortunate as to be legally able to. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alc.suicide, From: holtor@wxs.nl (mori bundus) Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 18:10:15 GMT "Abdullah al Jabir" wrote: > If you want to get a decent suicide, don't fire a > pistol into your head. > > If you use a high-powered cartridge, your skull will > probably explode, making a mess of the place chosen to > "do the deed". This will be an awful sight for your > family, friends, passers-by, etc. > > If you use a low-power round, such as a .22, you may > survive, but with a badly harmed brain. I thought that was precisely where helmets are made for, so put a helmet on your top and fire away............ ------------------------------------------------------ ii. Death-By-Police buy a cheap toy gun that looks real enough from a distance. get stopped by a police officer and, from a distance, get emotional and pull the weapon. refuse to put it down when they command it. take a firing stance and aim the toy. best to obscure your body except for your head when beginning the escapade. D. IMPACT 1. Devices a. Crushing Machines 2. Weights ------------ 3. Heights (Falling) a. Bridges To: alt.suicide.holiday From: the Chemist Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 01:03:31 +0000 re Bridges vs Buildings > At 150 meters there might not be much of a differance. > Although your body will be washed clean of blood your > head and trunk might be ruptured requiring your body > to be taken out of the water in pieces. better reasons: 1) lesser chance to hit anyone walking on the pavement. Friend of mine jumped onto someone. She died, die is now in jail for manslaughter 2) less junk on the pavement. remember all thos little children walking there and seeing your skull from the inside. Trauma's and stuff 3) no chance on falling on anything soft like bushes or trees. If there is something there, it's usually harder than water and called a boat. ----------------------------------------------------- b. Buildings To: nagasiva@yronwode.com (in IRC) From: parasite3@hotmail.com: Date: November 6, 1997 jump from radio towers; use carpet to get over barbed wire. c. Planes ---------------------------------------------------------- 4. Vehicles a. Trains To: soc.culture.japan,alt.suicide.holiday From: Charles M Richmond Date: Sat, 05 Jul 1997 09:27:52 -0400 trent wrote: > James Peters wrote: >> Jumping in front of trains seems to be pretty >> reliable here. Over the span of just three >> months, between Tachikawa and Kichijoji on the >> Chuo line (a very small section of that line), >> we had 17 "jumpers" in 1995. >> >> In those cases the family must pay huge fines >> according to how long the trains are down for >> maintainance and clean-up after the suicide, so >> it punishes and shames the family quite >> effectively. It's not very Kevorkian. > > are you serious?? the families have to pay? > why? how are _they_ deemed responsible when > often its just society-at-large that pushes one > "over the edge"? i don't understand the > justification here... wow...families paying > for how long commuters are inconvenienced... > thats both hilarious and frightening. It is true and it has also been very effective in reducing the number of train jumpers. From the Japanese government standpoint, one 'jumper' during rush hour has an economic cost of millions. 100s/yr has a real impact. The point of the legislation was to try to control the method of choice more than it was to stop suicides or punish families. Even so when the head of the oil cleanup from the norhthern oil spill 'fell' in front of a train, it was reported as an accident. Maybe they did not fine his family. --------------------------------------------------- b. Trucks E. COMBINATION 1. impact/decapn (piano wire jump) ------------------------------------------------------ 2. poison/asphyx (pills and bag) From: nagasiva@yronwode.com the Hemlock Society (which supports the right of the terminally-ill to die -- the contact I spoke with said that they had few objections to general suicide support but are working on the terminally-ill rights first) says that the rubber band method may cause sufficient discomfort such that an alternative is recommended: placing a pillow on top of the front of the bag on one's chest. I am not aware of the failure rate of either method. I have heard stories of people who ended up getting their fingers under the rubber bands and thwarting their own attempt in part because of the discomfort of the method employed. ------------------------------------------------------- anonymous: I think bags alone will always result in labored-breathing, much like when underwater (say, with weights attached to ankles). it requires an iron will and a supreme display of self-control that overcomes autonomic self-rescue responses. this is why depressants are used in combination -- to overcome these responses and diffuse the pain of the breathing problems. ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: tagtraeumer Marc wrote >S510998 wrote: >> >> So here is my improved method. >> First of all, I will take 340 mg of valium (Stesolid, >> so no pills, but rectioles) to lower the heartbeat >> and relax the muscles. >> >> Then I will enjoy about one and a half litre of Vodka >> (according to the post on lethal overdose I will need >> roundabout that). >> >> To finish it all off I will use the band and bag >> method. > >That combination is kinda difficult - you may find that >you'll be too out of it all of a sudden (in my case it >unexpectedly hit me - not sure what happened afterwards >and when people told me about it it didn't seem at all >familiar... I was unable to recognise anyone and had to >ask who people were every two minutes or so). Then >there is always the problem of holding it all down... >1,5l of vodka is fine, but the problem is drinking >it all! Not sure I could. Not without being violently >sick after the first .75 l anyway! The violent sickness probably begins hours later (when most of the alcohol hopefully has left the stomach...) but unfortunately the narcotic effect sets in very soon and makes it impossible to use bag and band properly. After taking the valium and drinking half the quantity you'll be half unconscious. I would feel much more secure if I could combine it with a situation that ensures death in any case, i.e. to drink myself silly in a leaking boat in a cold night is really a tempting idea to me. Another (stupid or not?) variant is to stand with the noose around your neck and instead of kicking the chair (on which you stand) off keep drinking until you collapse. ----------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: selfdeath@aol.com (Selfdeath) Date: 7 Aug 1997 09:30:13 GMT >110323.1510@compuserve.com wrote: >> >> If I were to take enough sleeping pills and >> then put a plastic bag over my head while >> I'm drifting off to sleep, would the sleeping >> pills ensure that I wouldn't wake up once >> their isn't enough oxygen in the bag? I >> don't want to take enough sleeping pills to >> kill me, just enough so that I could sleep >> through the suffocation. Thanks. > >This is the exact method I tried - two problems >arose: first time round, I waited for about >twenty minutes for the sleepers (Temazepam) to >reach maximum effect, and accidentaly fell >asleep for four hours. I then topped them off >with a couple more, then tried the plastic bag, >but even though I was drowsy, I still managed >to panic and get up enough adrenaline to partly >rip the bag off my head (it was tied on with a >length of rope round the neck), whereupon I fell >unconscious and was discovered by a guy walking >his dog and taken to hospital. > >I believe the method's sound - just needs a >little reworking... It's nice to hear other's attempt at this particular method (my favorite method). Just today I saw someone on tv who died from this method (read "Suicide on LAPD show" for details). My problems were about the same as yours regarding the panic. Though drugged with diphenhydramine and vodka, I couldn't help but pull the rubber band from my neck.... ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide,alt.suicide.holiday,alt.suicide.finals From: shell_@usa.net Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 22:43:27 -0800 > shell_@usa.net wrote: > > I have actually taken about 30 OTCs tablets before > > (not sure what kind). I fell asleep for a long time > > and then I woke up and found out I was starving so > > I ate some food and got right back to sleep. I had > > a weird sensation in my head that would make me > > feel sleepy so I slept a lot for the rest of the > > week or so. Generally I believe OTCs along won't work. > > My next attempt will pobably be OTCs + bag/band + > > alchohol. Hope this helps. Friendly wrote: > Thank you for the input! My plan is exactly OTCs + bag > and band + alchohol. > > I have the following question for you, and please make > your best guess according to your experience: is > deep-sleep induced by a high doesage of OTCs sufficient > to avoid panic reaction to the "bag and band" method? > > I fear that if the deep-sleep is not deep enough, my > reflexes might do something like ripping the bag open > and such. Believe it or not, I just tried OTCs + bag and band+ alchohol not very long ago and failed. OTCs is simply not strong enough and fast enough. I can not fell asleep for two reasons: the uncomfortableness caused by putting the bag on me, and the urge to vomit. It is not only when I rip the bag open and waited for the feeling of throwing up to go away did I fell asleep. I could have taken more dosage and drink more alchohol but I doubt I can hold it down all in my stomach that way. I have to disgard this method and go for others. ---------------------------------------------------------- To: alt.suicide.holiday From: barbfreak@aol.com (BarbFreak) Date: 12 Jan 1998 19:38:04 GMT Well said.....OTCs don't work well with the bag because even though they are sedatives they aren't strong enough to suppress your response to CO2 buildup in the bag. Even benzodiazepines like halcion, restoril, valium etc don't really work well with the bag for the same reason... unless you take a massive dose accompanied by lots of booze. Benzos(and alcohol of course) also have a tendency to produce nausea in overdose. The meds that work best with the bag are the barbiturates (secobarbital, pentobarbital, phenobarbital, etc) because they do directly suppress your brain's response to CO2. They are also less likely to induce nausea/vomiting. ------------------------------------------------------ To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Uncletom" Date: 18 Jul 1997 14:47:19 GMT Preferably to be carried out on a long, wide stretch of dirt road, with plenty of BIG trees in the area. Supplies: 500 feet of 3/4" rope Car, with at least a 286 6 banger, good tires. Known for excellent reliability, pick-up. Case of beer, various tranquilizers. 1. Do up! Load up and party. 2. Tie one end of the rope SECURLY to a HUGE tree. 3. Make a nice hangmans noose in the other end of the rope. 4. Get in the car, run the rope in, and buckle-up. IT'S THE LAW! Tighten down real tight on your straps now boys and girls for maximum effectiveness. 5. All buckled in nice and secure? Well, now just put that ol hangmans noose around your little neck, and pull the damn thing up tight. TIP: If you have a truck with a rear sliding window USE IT. 6. Ladies and gents start your motors! All set? GO LIKE HELL!!!! ---------------------------------------------------- 3. poison/asphyx/hypotherm (alcohol/ leaky boat in cold water) To: alt.suicide.holiday From: "Trevor (Not Trevor)" ichi@earthling.net artesticulated >...lippencott@rocketmail.com (bill) wrote: > >: Any thoughts on the old trick of kicking the radio >: into the bathtub? Even with modern breaker boxes, >: will the current last long enough? > >I am not sure weither any current would actually go >through your body (heart) to kill you. Seen it in >movies, but don't know if it actually works. I've come across very few suicides that have succeeded this way, but have found more than a few notable stories of suicidal types who have tried this method and blown the fuses... Factory worker Peter Ditert was a German case of repeated serious attempts, last time I read he had notched up number 10 after being discovered after an OD on 60 unspecified sleeping pills. Other attempts include - rat poison (puked), gunshot to head (gun jammed), and the hair-drier in the bath method in question. It blew the fuse.... Then there's 46 year old ex-miner Alan Unwin from Sunderland, UK. He tried to kill himself 7 times after his wife left him, including the 'shake hands with Jesus' method - he wrapped himself in wire and jumped in the tub before plugging in. The fuse blew and he suffered minor electric shock. Most drastic, BTW, was his 6th attempt, where he broke a gas pipe in his bedroom and lay down, waiting for death. Fed up of waiting, he lit a match... this blew out all the windows, part of the roof and the gable end of his house. He was pulled from the wreckage with minor flash burns.... a year later he was a much more cheerful man and back on speaking terms with his estranged wife! Go figure... ------------------------------------------------------ F. MYTHS 1. air vein-injection (??) 2. body paint (Goldfinger) 3. pencils jammed up nose (highschool) 4. sucking out brain (through eyes, etc.) =============================================== REFERENCES: To: alt.suicide.holiday From: eurasiaguy@aol.com (EurasiaGuy) Date: 18 Dec 1997 05:39:58 GMT re _Final Exit_, by Derek Humphrey: >Does anyone have or has anyone read this book? >If so, please help me. I really need to go on >a nice, warm, suicide holiday. I read it out of sheer curiosity...interesting book and a great intro for people looking for a way out. But most will find it disappointing because it tells you what you should take but doesn't give concrete advice on how to get it. It is also gives very inconsistent advice on dosages etc. But who said suicide is an exact science? I recommend "Departing Drugs"...a much better and more accurate book which is also based on ongoing research. You have to be a member of a Right to Die organization to get it though. ----------------------------------------------------- NOTES: References _Departing Drugs_, by Chris G. Docker and Cheryl K. Smith; write and join the Right to Die Society of Canada and purchase a book without waiting; less than $20, 60pgs. _Final Exit_, by Derek Humphrey, most major bookstores. _Uncle Fester's Silent Death_, published by Loompanics Unlimited for homebrew toxins and other methods. ------------------------------------------------------- from http://netvet.wustl.edu/org/awic/bib/avmaeuth.htm Precautions Concerning Use of Euthanatizing Agents in Animals Intended For Human or Animal Food In euthanasia of animals intended for human or animal food, agents that result in tissue residues cannot be used, unless they are approved by the US Food and Drug Administration. Carbon dioxide is the only chemical currently used in euthanasia of food animals (primarily swine) that does not lead to tissue residues. __________________________________________________________ Agents and methods of euthanasia by species Species: Non-human primates I. Acceptable (Refer to Table 2) Barbiturates II. Conditionally acceptable (Refer to Table 3) Inhalant anesthetics, CO, CO2, N2, Ar --------------------------------------------------------- FORMAT FOR RATINGS AVAILABILITY/ACCESS -- how easy it is to achieve DOSAGE/EQUIPMENT -- what items are needed SKILLS/EXPERTISE -- what we need to know how to do EXPERIENCE/SYMPTOMS -- what it will feel like DURATION (PAIN/DEATH) -- how long it will take to die MYTHS/INACCURAIES -- false stories about it EOF